I read an article last night and have been thinking about this excerpt:
Just yesterday we wrote about the “Calexit” proposal that was starting to gather steam after Trump’s historic victory on Tuesday night. Now The Oregonian points out that a group in Oregon has also filed the “Oregon Secession Act” in response to the perceived notion that “Oregonian values are no longer the values held by the rest of the United States.” But, unlike the Calexit proposal, the distraught Hillary supporters in Oregon are thinking big picture and have invited the states of California, Washington, Hawaii, Nevada and Alaska to all band together to form a new nation.
I believe the point they make that their values are no longer held by the rest of the United States is valid. Here are two points to consider:
1. Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution:
The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.
The Republic was set up as a unification of individual states under a limited federal government. The rights of these states to be sovereign governments has nothing to do with the values of other states. Their argument for secession actually proves the importance of the Electoral College.
2. There is (or was) one reason why our country became the greatest country in the world: we were united. We have a common language, culture, currency, military and laws. And common values. We are fighting a war in this country as old as mankind: good vs. evil. Evil is trying to destroy the country from within through diversity. Most people do not realize that diversity is the antonym of unity. Pointing out our differences and diversifying the country’s common values are their biggest weapons.
America was called the Great Melting Pot because immigrants came here and melted into the existing, unified culture. What a difference a few generations make when our values and unity are used against us.
What has me thinking is personally troubling: is Oregon right? Are we already so diversified that our only hope is a Balkanization of the country into smaller countries with shared values? Would I rather live in a Southern Confederation of States that share religious views, culture and a distrust of the Federal government? Would I be upset if a Western coalition of states broke off and formed a new country? Do I share the “values” of Detroit, Chicago, New York or Washington, D.C.? The most troubling question is whether my children would be better in a country under attack from within or in a smaller country unified with virtue and morality?
I realize some people will use Southern Confederation of States as a means to label this as racist. These same people would not label the Oregonian Proposition as racist. And this is just confirmation of the tactics and labels being used to divide the country and the states.
David DeGerolamo
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This type of thinking used to be considered COMMON SENSE. With the advent of godless communism and it’s invention of the term racist, common sense is now seen as bad. Why do we, given the overwhelming Biblical and other historical evidence, torture ourselves with such a fools errand?
The ability to self govern, or secession if you like, seemed self evident in 1776 and as far as I am concerned it remains so. That is if one would like to live in peace.. For what purpose should we seek to force those, who do not share our religion, culture, history, and genetic bonds, to live among us? Shall we follow the paths of tyrants before and subdue and force into submission those who have no desire to remain among us? Should we not treat others in the same fashion that we ourselves wish to be treated?
Let us separate so that we may honor the Almighty author of all life and enjoy HIs blessings and let those who reject Him be shown His glory and the truth of His promises.
Might want to look at the districts, North CA and South Or. are RED on the map. The state of Jefferson would and could gladly serve as a pacific port for the rest of the country. A simple click on You-Tube and enter State of Jefferson. To southern CA and extreme North OR…. See-ya!
Unfortunately, I have come to the conclusion that Balkanization is inevitable at this point --
The fundamental difference between most Traditional Southerners, and the residents of places like Chicago, Oregon, LA and the San Francisco Valley, or the old New England States -- are so entrenched at this point, and so antithetical in their essence and foundations, that a final division and parting is the most likely conclusion.
And given the Left’s propensity for creating chaos and inciting violence, we are reasonably informed as to the means which they will likely employ to advance their aims toward a final separation of their stronghold areas from our Union of States.
Taking these facts at face value, the question them becomes, “Should such places be expelled from the union, on terms dictated by those of us adhering to the Constitution and it’s original intent, rather than letting them go as they will and take what they will with them?”
North Carolina once was conservative and Christian. Vast numbers of northeasteners that have made North Carolina their home brought with them their progressive, liberal ideology. We were fortunate this time around that North Carolina went for Trump, but we now have a progressive, liberal governer. I am not so sure that we could count on the south remaining true to its conservative, Christian heritage. Mecklenberg County went about 68% for Hillary Clinton.
Nuke Charlotte, and let it be a warning to all the other carpet-baggers, that they probably ought to be moving along somewhere else…
Our heritage and our principles are non-negotiable.
Attempt to use force upon us at your own peril.
We should not consider secession; however, we should graciously allow California, Oregon, Washington, and the northeast coast from Washington, D.C. to Maine to consider secession—except, if they vote to secede, we keep the existing military installations and hardware. The West Coast could elect Pelosi as President. The east coast could elect Pocahontas President and she could fight with the New York banks.
Once these progressive Utopias are established, we in fly-over country should announce that where we live (1) abortion is not contraception, it is murder, (2) a person’s sexual preference or lifestyle preference is only that, a preference and not a civil right, and (3) anyone wishing to emigrate from fly-over country to either Utopia is encouraged to do so immediately. An emigrant can trade property with someone wishing to vacate Utopia, and that transfer will be tax free. If inner city residents wish to emigrate but cannot afford bus fare, a travel voucher will be provided. Illegal immigrants here wishing to leave may do so on their own. They already have those skills and resources. In empty urban areas, bulldozers will replace welfare. Those desiring to stay and work can be employed recycling.
Shovel-ready jobs would include energy independence, pipelines, and converting Charleston into a major harbor.
I was a divorce lawyer for too many years. I have seen too many “families” in the same situation the USA now finds itself.
When all hope of rational dialogue has faded, and been replaced by a winner-take-all perception, divorce is inevitable.
The only question becomes whether the divorce resolution will be by conflict or agreement.
When the progressives wielded power, we viewed divorce only by conflict. We prepared to fight for our independence.
As we now hold power, we have an opportunity to resolve divorce by agreement.
We can let them go in peace.
If we do not seize this opportunity, they will eventually regain control of the mechanisms of government, and we will be forced again to prepare for conflict to separate us from them—secede. Look closely at the recent election. Those razor-thin margins of victory will be reversed.
Why not divorce now--by agreement--and let all leave who want to leave? Let them form and fund their Utopias.
And leave us Basket of D’s as the majority in fly-over country. Free to form and fund our society.
Oh let them scream and bitch, Ca that is. Northern Ca or the State of Jefferson as most of us call it could care less what So Ca wants anyway. Just a mention here, we have ALL the water and were willing to sell it to So CA. Better yet, let them try to take it. Oh and we sell lumber too.
American Patriots:
I urge you to seriously consider the benefits of and the essential nature of secession. Secession would allow Americans to form two separate nations, one founded in 1776 as a Constitutional Republic and the other founded in 2017 (2020?) on progressive, socialist ideals.
I support the plan for Oregon, et al. to succeed from the Constitutional Republic of America. I would support the newly formed country to use the same name with just a letter change -- AMERIKA.
The marxists among us have for a hundred years attempted to undermine and destroy the capitalistic government (system) of America. We have also been experiencing an invasion from illegal immigrants from Mexico, South America, the Middle east and Africa. While many are seeking financial and physical security, some are determined to destroy the very nation that has welcomed them and which has been providing for their welfare. Unless individuals wish to immigrate legally and become Americans, they are not welcome and will not be tolerated, especially those who bring drugs, violence and hatred of our way of life.
The Southern states had every right to succeed from the union in the 1880’s; however, the federal government abused its power and forced Americans to war against each other to preserve not the union but their control over the entire nation.
I now understand that the Southern states sought legal succession and were in fact right to do so. It was and is each states right to determine its own destiny.
Therefore, i totally support the plan to succeed from the United States, as a matter of fact, it is time that the entire nation state by state decide which way to go remain in a Constitutional Republic or form a socialist welfare state.
Unfortunately, I doubt that the succession plan will go forward, since those socialist/marxist who say they will succeed are too comfortable spending everyone else’s money to support their socialist agenda; however, should the momentum build, I for one would like the Constitutional Republic to establish a separate nation as well. So my friend and fellow Americans, lets get busy with the plans to draw the lines and establish two separate nations. We can cooperate where we can and in disagreement we can disagree.
Excellent concept to succeed. Let’s all join in a nationwide discussion and plan to create two separate nations, since the radical left will not tolerate the Trump presidency and government control in conservative hands for a while. If all Americans were able to be strong, mature and responsible, we could get along.
God bless our Constitutional Republic and the restoration of our Constitution and liberty. Peace, Peter ~
When you think about it, how many people in America would choose to live as Americas as it was founded. Think about it really deep. Social Security would be gone. Medicare would be gone. Unemployment would be gone. WICK would be gone (sorry that is all I can think about at this time, I know there is a lot more). So many more social programs at the state level that are funded by the feds. All those illegal programs used to buy and enslave people, would be gone. Being honest, how many Americans would choose to give them up?
I myself would choose too, but I would not choose to if the outcome is the same. Maybe in a smaller does, but the same. So thinking really deep and being really honest, how many here would give it all up to be really free?
I definitely would. Because Americans didn’t starve to death or die in the streets un-cared for before “Uncle Sam” came along. Neighbors were Neignbors -- they watched out for one another. And local Churches, civic groups, and such worked together to ensure that the vulnerable in their communities were cared for -- the widows, the orphans, and the handicapped were never “cast out into the cold” as the liberals would have us believe.
The difference was that “help” from those sources came with strings attached. You were expected to help yourself, as well -- not be given a free ride. And **THAT** is the aspect of American Charity which the progressives simply HAD to break. Because how could they grow an underclass of captive voters if they couldn’t appropriate the wagon of charity, and turn it to their own uses?
You forgot to mention family took care of family. There was none of this I am happy to put mom/dad/grandma/grandpa in the nursing home because it is convenient.
The DNC will never let the States secede as they would not be able to win elections without the West coast. End of story.
I’ve said that the elite hive-states, like NY, IL, and CA should kick those hapless rubes in flyover country (us) out of the union.
I’ve long subscribed to the beauty of secession. It was right to do it the first time, and is right to do so now. In fact, I personally seceded in 2012. Everyone else should go and do likewise, not for MY benefit, but for their own. Secession in 1860 was honorable and just. It failed, in part, I believe, because it was a top-down approach to doing the right thing. This time, let’s reverse the order.
How did I secede? I withdrew my consent. I stopped participating in that illegitimate process of “voting” for my masters. I quit prostrating myself to the Leviathan every April 15th, and I quit giving them what was all rightfully mine. I don’t supplicate to the state for the privilege of traveling freely. Did you know that there is no provision in the US tax code that requires an American citizen, living in America, earning pay from American company(ies) to file or pay “income” tax? Did you know that a personal income tax is actually UNconstitutional? Or that this “country” prospered for something like 125 years (and paid its army & navy) long before the income tax amendment?
Do you know exactly what “profit DERIVED from income” means and what differentiates it from actual wage income? Care to guess who among us can say he hasn’t contributed via taxation to the Planned Parenthood butchers, not ONE THIN DIME?
I posted a link to this essay at my place, you may find of use in this discussion, though I don’t (as Southerner) embrace the idea of keeping the name, or erasing the internal lines: https://mises.org/blog/secede-and-decentralize-open-letter-clinton-supporters Please read it.
Why contribute to the orchestration of your own demise? Embrace your own sovereignty, and just give them the little you care to spare. Quit outsourcing your Liberty to a collective, ANY collective. Reclaim what is rightfully yours.
-Jeffronimo
I’ve said that the elite hive-states, like NY, IL, and CA should kick those hapless rubes in flyover country (us) out of the union.
I’ve long subscribed to the beauty of secession. It was right to do it the first time, and is right to do so now. In fact, I personally seceded in 2012. Everyone else should go and do likewise, not for MY benefit, but for their own. Secession in 1860 was honorable and just. It failed, in part, I believe, because it was a top-down approach to doing the right thing. This time, let’s reverse the order.
How did I secede? I withdrew my consent. I stopped participating in that illegitimate process of “voting” for my masters. I quit prostrating myself to the Leviathan every April 15th, and I quit giving them what was all rightfully mine. I don’t supplicate to the state for the privilege of traveling freely. Did you know that there is no provision in the US tax code that requires an American citizen, living in America, earning pay from American company(ies) to file or pay “income” tax? Did you know that a personal income tax is actually UNconstitutional? Or that this “country” prospered for something like 125 years (and paid its army & navy) long before the income tax amendment?
Do you know exactly what “profit DERIVED from income” means and what differentiates it from actual wage income? Care to guess who among us can say he hasn’t contributed via taxation to the Planned Parenthood butchers, not ONE THIN DIME?
I posted a link to this essay at my place, you may find of use in this discussion, though I don’t (as Southerner) embrace the idea of keeping the name, or erasing the internal lines: https://mises.org/blog/secede-and-decentralize-open-letter-clinton-supporters Please read it.
Why contribute to the orchestration of your own demise? Embrace your own sovereignty, and just give them the little you care to spare. Quit outsourcing your Liberty to a collective, ANY collective. Reclaim what is rightfully yours.
-Jeffronimo
I am working my out of the paying for the beast. I hope soon I will not have to participate.
Good for you, Tom. You may not easily get away with refusing to pay the king the toll he places on your real estate, or else you’ll have to back up that refusal with armed resistance.
But the income tax question IS remarkably simple. And there isn’t a secret maze of legal trickery one must navigate. The 16th Amendment was never intended to be any kind of tax on personal income, but was to be a tax on employers who benefited from a profit on incomes (sold minus paid). The tax code doesn’t say what they’ve convinced your employers it says.
They may come SWAT me tomorrow for saying so, but they haven’t a legitimate legal leg for doing so. More citizens need to be aware of this pertinent fact. Laugh at the naked emperor, as I do.
Suggested reading: Royce’s “Hologram of Liberty”.
The anger and rage against conservatives and President-Elect Trump is irrational; however, the radical liberal left have helped liberals remain ignorant for a hundred years.
The double standard is clear, president obama refuses to hold a news conference to demand that hostile, violent liberals and those illegal on the dole refrain from the violence throughout the nation against conservative and especially anyone who reflect that they are Trump voters, let along conference with state governors and law enforcement to insist that they protect America citizens.
It is time for law abiding citizens to stand up and speak out against the violence and the silence of our so called leaders to stop this madness. If they do not at some point law abiding citizens will begin to defend themselves and the violent folks on the right may just start taking action similar to the thugs in the cities across the nation.
We need to pray that decent law abiding citizens remain patient and restrain themselves from retaliating against inner city violent thugs.
If our country ever explored into an armed conflict, it will take many lives especially of the perpetrators as well as the victims of this insane aggression against law abiding citizens.
Wake up liberals and especially radical marxist who are inciting violence, for you will become the target. Liberal leaders are likely to be targeted in any revolution, so be careful how you incite others and treat your fellow citizens who may have no mercy on you.
God bless us everyone. Choose today whom you will serve, as for me and my house we will serve the Lord. Peace, Peter ~
When the leaders are the ones fomenting the violence, we cannot turn to them to stop it. We got what we asked for as a nation. A Godless nation, now the payment is coming due. The only way out is repent and turn back to God. Not once in the Bible did a nation turn away from God then repent and not pay a price for that ignorance.
Tom is correct. Nineveh was in sackcloth and ashes for offenses far less grave than those the US has committed over the last fifty years; and yet surely Nineveh went down to destruction -- it’s entire People were disbursed into captivity and scattered into obscurity, and ceased to be a Nation any longer; while it’s physical existence was so totally obliterated and desolate that it lay hidden for over twenty centuries.
What then shall become of us, a Nation who has done far worse, and yet refuse to repent of our grievous burden of sins?
WE HAVE BEEN WARNED