Do you think the United States is composed of virtuous people?
Since people cannot even agree on the definition of virtue (or define public virtue), the answer is no. A strange phrasing on Mr. Franklin’s part: capable of freedom. If we are incapable of freedom, does that mean we want to be slaves or corrupt and vicious masters?
These are not questions for debate but questions that we need to ask ourselves. If we do not understand the intangible nouns of honor, morality, virtue and courage, who is at fault for our loss of Liberty? Is it as simple as living a moral and righteous life in order to have a free country?
David DeGerolamo
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I have come to the belief we get what we ask for or deserve as a nation. It is well past time to carve out an area of our own. That is the only way to be free, well, at least for a little while.
Jeremiah 5:31 “The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?” To paraphrase, people get the preachers and politicians they deserve. See Romans 1:18-32 for a description.
Shane, excellent post!
Thank you. Been coming to this site for quite a while now. Decided to first chime in on the Trinity discussion.
I went back and found your post. I’m too lazy to post the length that you posted. Here we go: New Testament -- Son of God 46 times, God the son 0. Can’t we give God a little credit for being clear? For more info, the Way International put out “Jesus Christ Is Not God” about 40 years ago. It handles a lot of the scriptures that the trinitarians elevate over the 46 -- 0 dominating score.
The post on the Trinity was cut and paste from one of my sermons. There are other portions of Scripture that point to a Triune God. Personally, I wouldn’t base whether or not there is a Trinity or Christ Jesus divinity based on “God the Son” not being found in Scripture. Often comparing Scripture with Scripture is our guide. Christ Jesus accepted worship. If He were not God and accepted worship, then we are all in big trouble (see the last 2 words of Revelation 22:9). Another example is found in Acts 5:3-4. Notice who was lied to in each verse. Points to the Holy Spirit as God.
Jesus told us who God is and who too worship.
John 17:3 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 4:23 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Thanks for the Jeremiah verse.
Romans 1:29-32 -- 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Sounds exactly like America.
Or…sounds exactly like Canada where I live. We are a communist nation with a communist Prime Minister who is in the process of trying to censor the internet just like other communist nations. If he gets his way and his bill passes that will censor the internet, I honestly don’t know if I’ll be able to access fine sites like NC Renegades anymore.
An addition to my first reply to you…our communist Prime Minister also wants to take our guns. He knows exactly what he’s doing.
I know what a tyrant he is. The trucker should have pushed the issue, instead of backing off. The whole world was hoping they would have. Make you want to move around a lot of brothers and sisters, doesn’t it.
I was asked a few years ago about going to the U.S to Pastor. I was corresponding with a church in Texas but they could only give me part time work, so that was out. Another Pastor wanted me to go to Illinois as an associate Pastor. My wife put her foot down: Florida she’s happy, Illinois she ain’t happy. If momma bear ain’t happy, nobody’s happy, so we didn’t go.
Is it the weather or politics that she does not like in Illinois?
The weather. She’s had enough of our cold (so have I). I like the politics in Florida and Texas….and the weather.
We use to live in Smithville, TN. The summer is hot, the winters, well very nice (I am from NE Ohio).
They need good Church leaders in that whole area. There is at least 2 homo communes and a gay bar with in 30 minutes drive of the place.
If you are looking to plant a church, I might be willing to help out.
Thanks for the offer but there’s a lot involved in planting a church, especially in a different country. Green cards, deputation, insurance, age, to name a few.
Definition of virtue, behavior showing high moral standards. We all have boob tubes and other assorted propaganda devices. I to watch and use these devices, mainly to garner information, the truth I get is from the word of God and prayer and meditation. This is not a crutch for me, I want to be in obedience to God. And to be in obedience is to reject this evil that prevails from shore to shore, that also requires action on my part not just words. And what action is that? In my opinion it requires that I draw my sword and throw away the sheath until every last one of these demons is under my feet.
The voters are largely responsible, in that they consented without initiating or following up with checks and balances as to what was actually implemented and the ensuing agendas. Voting because one is a submissive (which is what it actually amounts to whether one thought they were doing their duty or not), doesn’t count, and yet it does. How and who it counts towards has always been, at least in modern times, the purview of those who make the policy, and their overlords. It favors and benefits a small group of people, ensuring trickle-up economics, and downward functionality and mobility for the rest; an ultimate goal of the powers that be.
This country as a whole is reprobate and that is the reason we have fallen into moral decline with satanic leaders and corrupt government and law enforcement down to the local level. Even if it were possible to retake this country from these evil leaders it would be pointless as this nation is full of ungovernable reprobates… The United States is not composed of virtuous people any longer therefore the Constitution is of no use and this country cannot be saved through overthrow of the government. This I believe is one of the main points that Wes just does not get beyond the fact that overthrow from the inside is impossible at this point as much as I hate to admit it. We are under the judgment of an angry God and the time for changing the direction and course of this nation is decades past. We would need a majority of virtuous people ready to act and probably outside help from a Superpower for Revolution and rebuilding in this country. The truth is we are almost certainly in the very very last days before Tribulation, the rise of the Man of Sin and the return of our Lord Jesus which makes this all a moot point anyway… I believe this is also something Wes is completely missing as he seems to think we have an endless future ahead while the World is obviously living out the last days of biblical prophesy. I am not trying to be hard on Wes but his expectations of Revolution and generations to come living under the present system without looking at the prophetic timeline seem very unrealistic. I believe we need to stand against evil all day long but those of us that believe that or even recognize evil are just a small remnant.
“The United States is not composed of virtuous people any longer therefore the Constitution is of no use and this country cannot be saved through overthrow of the government.”
Many people have virtues, but most are not historically virtuous. Addressing this is perhaps one of the finer points in understanding how the people became divided. It really comes down to a study of individualism and hyperindividualism as correlated with collectivity and communal lifestyles. The definition of virtue (from a past perspective, although some still tout it) described in the other article involves a degree of collective and communal dispositions and outlooks, having to do with how they managed themselves (the government). A quick look at the Constitution and according historical persons makes clear that although the individual was valued, there was very much a group aspect that was implied and understood to necessitate functional government according to the Declaration of Independence, etc. Why are they (many of those seeking a past form of governance) philosophically and practically unable to see in more recent times, and in most likelihood it was because of capitalistic sentimentalism, that the rugged individualism wasn’t and isn’t leading the country where they desired it to be? Even a peripheral view of historical governance conveys a necessitating of group involvement, i.e., civics, and civic responsibilities to function accordingly. Capitalism in its modern form must necessarily be brought into this because in order for practically everyone to live as individualists or hyperindividualists, they have to have money to do so, and have their rights and mobility. With so many single people, they all need apartments and houses, and may be launching their own ‘brands’ or enterprises. This may not have anything to do with, and may be contrary to republicanism based on carrying on what was practiced based on previous constitutional constructs. Much of this has to do with the education system being left to languish. It’s agreed that the country cannot be reclaimed even if the government is overthrown. This is how one knows the people were doing government all wrong, and all those constitutionalists…and churches.
I am still looking for an honest man.
Me too …
Perfect question David! Short answer, NO! Good timing though I think this will be the subject of my shabbat afternoon study.
Most of the people I know are unable to explain the difference between Liberty and Freedom.
All of these are incapable of living in either Liberty or Freedom.
They abdicate their personal responsibilities in in order to obtain security from their false god, the State.
I wrote an article about the difference. Based on my research and beliefs, I used Liberty in place of freedom in the article.
David -- you know in your heart I don’t include you in the category of “most people” …
However, I didn’t answer your question: “Is it as simple as living a moral and righteous life …?”
While that would probably guarantee men could coexist in Liberty, I personally would not ask or require that of others. I believe the necessary and sufficient conditions for Liberty are simpler:
Richard J. Maybury — ‘Do all you have agreed to do, and do not encroach on other persons or their property.
I am open to accept the challenge that Maybury is merely explaining the consequences of moral and righteous behavior.
I was agreeing with your initial comment. When I first started to understand the difference between freedom and Liberty, I realized this was another successful means to divide us through ignorance. How can we have freedom in our minds without Liberty as a foundation of our government’s mandate?
@DRenegade
I want to apologize for the last two posts I made here. I was factually wrong, and accusatory. I have felt convicted to ask forgiveness. I know you are doing your best to provide insight and information to anyone willing to listen. I will do better in the future.
I am sorry.
No problems with me. Thank you.
Hats off for this.
Men of God, would certainly put God first, would they not?
we need to start here, and stay here. Before even family, before our children. How many of us are here? Before country? Before Leviathan.
A thought: i have known honest men, and virtuous men. Perfect men?
i believe all of us can grow, when willing.
Honest men, and men of virtue are ones who can admit their faults, admit their mistakes and strive to change their ways.
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