“We are lesser sons, of greater Sires” or, the problem with Evangelicals.

“Of the spirited roars of lost warrior’s songs,
Distant echoes are all that remain.”

I make no secret that I am a Christian. Shockingly, that means I run into a lot of other people who also profess to be a Christan. As the world continues to burn, I take comfort in knowing that the end of America, or even the end of this world and my life in it, is not the end of me, and again, I find myself surrounded by people who profess the same thing. The bad thing though, is most of the time they accompany that sentiment by saying something like “I’m so glad God is in control, so I don’t have to care about it.” Every time I hear that, I want to lose my mind, because it reminds me of how far we have fallen. Christians used to be the foremost warriors of the earth, and I am not only referring to the crusades. (Interestingly, when I start to talk about this, both Christians and non-Christians have made comments about how “unlike Christianity” the earlier church seems to be; for instance, many people seem to be under the persuasion that the early church was pacifistic, or non-violent, at least.) One of the saddest things that I have seen regarding current events is how readily many modern Christians seem to be willing to simply “sit back and pray,” doing nothing else about the current dilemma. It is sad because Christians have not always been this way – the “sit back and let God sort it out” mentality is a relatively modern convention. How did we come to this?

I have spent a lot of time tracing the differences between modern and historical Christianity, partially because the progression is darn interesting but also because I would see Christians pick up the torch that we left on the ground, and carry it forward once again. Christianity has a long and proud heritage, one that I would see reclaimed, if possible. One step in that process, perhaps the first step, is for us to remember what we once were. I have talked about this before at MVT, and Max referenced some of what I said last night on another thread, so it seems now is a good time to start a thread (and hopefully a discussion) about this here. Before I do that, a couple points. First, I do not suggest that modern (evangelical) Christianity is evil, only incomplete. As such, please do not take any of these criticisms as “religious” per se – I am not calling anyone’s salvation or relationship with God into question, only showing an inconsistency between what many Christians say they believe and how they act. Many people have been misled into believing faith means inaction, as if God expects them to simply sit back and watch, and my intent is to show that mindset for the deception that it is. Second, later in this post I will elaborate what defines evangelical Christianity compared to its historical form, so if you consider yourself an evangelical, do not write this off yet – you might agree far more than you realize. Lastly, this post is a historical and not biblical analysis – I can do a biblical analysis later, but since many here do not hold scripture authoritative, I will attempt to confine this thread mostly to the historical analysis, and probably do a biblical analysis later.

While people will make the assertion that the early church was pacifistic, such is absolutely not the case. Some of the earliest converts to the church were Roman soldiers, who continued their occupation after their conversion. Although it is true that, in the years following the death of Jesus by Roman crucifixion, many Christians were executed without resistance, this was not a statement about violence as such – to over-simplify it, the early church believed that the only people they could allow to be abused was themselves. Following that line of reasoning, while they would allow themselves to be taken prisoner as an act of service toward God and the people taking them prisoner, they did not avoid action on behalf of others. Within the first two centuries, Christians became known for their fierce dedication to helping others at personal expense, even as they were persecuted by Caesar after Caesar. Their dedication to action on behalf of others was so striking that even several of the pagan Caesars were impressed, not the least of which was Marcus Aurelius who, though he persecuted and butchered Christians in the earlier days of his reign, is said to have relented and extended his protection to them after they saved him and his army. (He never converted, but he did have an engraving of the event carved into the Piazza Collona.)

As the centuries progressed, Christians began to play a more decisive role in international warfare. Following the military expansion of the Islamic horde, it was the Church who was chiefly responsible for driving back the Islamic invasion in the battle of Tours. (the “Battle that saved Western civilization.”) It was later a volunteer army of the Church that drove back the Muslim invasion of Byzantium, during the first Crusade. Afterwards, Christian volunteers formed into military orders, of which the Templars and the Hospitallers (neither of which were crusader forces, for the record) were the most prominent, and who were regarded by their enemies as the finest warriors on the battlefield, a reputation that endured for over two hundred years, and who were responsible for driving the invading Muslim armies out of Europe. Christians continued to be known by their martial prowess for hundreds of years following, and though they did not always win, they never failed to put up a respectable fight.

Christianity’s marital heritage continued well into the settlement of the American colonies. During this time, under the militia system, the churches in the colonies taught that defense of the community was the duty of every man, and in many areas, men were required by law and by doctrine to be trained and armed. “Conscientious objection” was not allowed, as they considered it self-evident that it is the duty of all to be ready to defend the weak. In some areas, notably Puritan New England, law required that all male churchgoers be armed and trained. Again, conscientious objection was not permitted; all men were to be armed and trained, whether they wanted to be or not. This belief and practice is partially why the colonies, comprised primarily by Christians, were able to endure where so many other attempts had failed, and is also partially responsible for the successes in the War for independence; by some accounts, on the day of “the shot heard ‘round the world,” the colonists were able to raise over fifteen thousand militiamen in under twenty-four hours, and that before America even declared her independence. From shortly after the death of Jesus to the War for Independence, Christians could be counted on to be at the front of pretty much any necessary fight.

So what happened?

Read the Whole Article here…

    
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Clark Ramsey
Clark Ramsey
3 years ago

You state….”Lastly, this post is a historical and not biblical analysis – I can do a biblical analysis later, but since many here do not hold scripture authoritative, I will attempt to confine this thread mostly to the historical analysis, and probably do a biblical analysis later.” I look forward to your Biblical analysis. I do hold to Scriptural authorit & do not see what your suggesting in Scripture. But I am teachable! So show me(us), The Knights Templar for example was a Christian movement but a Catholic movement to persecute Christians. But I will hear what yo got to say before making any analysis -- Clark

Rifleman1775
Rifleman1775
3 years ago
Reply to  Clark Ramsey

The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. (Exodus 15:3, KJV)
The LORD is a warrior; The LORD is His name. (Exodus 15:3, NASB)

A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace. (Ecclesiastes 3:8, KJV)
A time to love and a time to hate; A time for war and a time for peace. (Ecclesiastes 3:8, NASB)

A Psalm of David. Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: (Pslam 144:1, KJV)
A Psalm of David. Blessed be the LORD, my rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle; (Pslam 144:1, NASB)

For the LORD your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you. (Deuteronomy 20:4, KJV)for the LORD your God is the one who goes with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you. (Deuteronomy 20:4, NASB)
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34, KJV)
Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34, NASB)

This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; (1 Timothy 1:18, KJV)
This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, (1 Timothy 1:18, NASB)

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (Luke 22:36, KJV)
And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. (Luke 22:36, NASB)

Religion Motivates Resistance: Most colonists do not fear death, but embrace it.

“Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God.” (Ben Franklin)

Ministers and religious beliefs motivate resistance throughout the colonies. “An Appeal to Heaven.” (Motto of Washington’s Cruisers, originally a phrase of John Locke during the Glorious Revolution, 1688-1689) 

“The man who refuses to assert his right to liberty--property--and life--is guilty of the worst kind of rebellion.  He commits high treason against GOD.” (unknown author in the Connecticut Gazette 27 May 1774) 

Lydia Gray in a letter to her son Lt Ebenezer Gray in 1775: “you are preparing to meet the enemy….I firmly believe God is able to deliver and will deliver us out of the hands of these unnatural enemies in his own time….Trust in the Lord and be of good courage….I am more afraid of our sins than of all the forces of our enemy…Your loving mother.”

“We fervently pray, that you may never be called…to fight with, or shed the blood of British soldiers, who are bone of our bone, and flesh of our flesh…[If] our invaluable liberties cannot be preserved, but by the sword, you will not shrink from danger, nor desert the cause, but be of good courage and play the men valiantly for your people, and the cities of God…[Should you die,] you will die in the bed of your honor.” (Reverend Zabdiel Adams, January 1775, to a militia company of Lunenburg, Massachusetts)

“People of this land…[who] have been reduced to the dreadful alternative of submitting to arbitrary laws and despotic governments; or taking up arms in defense of those rights and privileges, which thou, in thy goodness, hast conferred upon them as men and as Christians.” (Reverend Leonard, Chaplain to General Putnam’s Regiment)

“Shall a man be deemed a rebel that supports his own rights? It is no more rebellion for the people to stand up for, and maintain their rights than it is to breathe in the free air.” (Reverend John Allen, Hartford, CN, 1774)

Clark Ramsey
Clark Ramsey
3 years ago

meant to say was NOT a Christian movement…sorry

a follower
a follower
3 years ago
Reply to  Clark Ramsey

Clark,
Good points! No replies. And does this surprise you? You see so many refuse to acknowledge why people fled to this land. Have they forgotten? They also do not seem to see that the very church you speak of hunted down and murdered the very Templars that served them. And this is the church so many look to as the one True church.
The splits of this church are its daughters. The True Church of the Messiah vanished shortly after He was physically here. Did they die weapons in hand waging bloody war upon the ones they deemed evil?
Did His 12 gather armies and weapons to wage war?
Or was this done by the other church, the opposite.

Louis Miller
Louis Miller
3 years ago

If you look at all the times Israel fought in the Old Testament, it is obvious that God sanctions fighting. When Peter cut the servants ear off, Jesus told him to put it away not get rid of it. If the Revolutionary war was fought for freedom, then we can fight for our freedom now!

a follower
a follower
3 years ago
Reply to  Louis Miller

“If you look at all the times Israel fought in the Old Testament, it is obvious that God sanctions fighting.”
How many times did Israel loose? How many times did God sanction this? How many times were they destroyed by foreign enemies for the same sins this Nation commits on a daily basis?
What makes everyone think God is here to bless us now? Have any clear and real leaders been sent? Where is George Washington?
Where is Moses for that matter? Was Moses weak and ineffective as reading the above article would have us believe? i mean he was not told to Gather an army of frustrated, fearful, pissed off people with no direction in mind to attack pharos and the Egyptians???

John Toothman
John Toothman
3 years ago

I have asked the very same question. Time for prayer has come and gone.

Lori G
3 years ago

Your presentation could not have been more timely. We just read that verse in James this morning, and I am discussing with a relative this very topic. I sent the link. Thanks again.

tangle
tangle
3 years ago

I like the article. I would love to read the biblical analysis.
I have been trying to express the concept at my church that they prayer closet is not a hiding place. That you need to prayer then take action for whatever evil presents itself. I am to the point where I am so tired of hearing all we can do it pray.

Quatermain
3 years ago

Matthew Chapter 15
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Gryphon
Gryphon
3 years ago

The two problems with the Christian ‘religion’ in America are its Subservience to the State, by way of the 501c(3) “Corporation” that places it under the Control of ‘government’.
The Second, and much Worse, IMO, thing is the Preachers’ total Endorsement of the ashkenazi ‘jew’ and the ‘zionist state of israel’ as being in any way ‘connected’ to the “jews” of the ‘bible’.
THIS is why the majority of ‘christians’ will send their Sons (and Daughters) to the Endle$$ War for $hekel$ in North Africa, and studiously Ignore the Fact of the “zionist occupation government” in the USSA.
It is because of a Century of Indoctrination into the Mythology of the ‘holy jew’, the Holy Cost(tm), the Evil nah-zees, and every Foul Perversion of Sexuality and Social Order that (((their))) Holy Wood produces, that White European Men have “Fallen”.
p.s. “god” (yahweh) said “…don’t eat the fruit of the tree of KNOWLEDGE”. Their ‘god’ wants you Stupid.

Truth in Tension
Truth in Tension
3 years ago
Reply to  Gryphon

Your comments are correct and right to the point.

ApoloDoc
ApoloDoc
3 years ago

Having recently finished Nick Needham’s excellent 4 volume series on church history, it becomes clear that there was a problematic melding of church & state in much of history. In the Middle Ages, many things were done not for “The Kingdom” but for worldly power. Warfare between Roman Catholic & Eastern Orthodox people make this rather clear.

The Kingdom of God is what we, as believers, must focus on. We are CERTAINLY called to be salt & light in the world. I have been reading from Samuel Rutherford, an really want to understand his book Lex Rex was pivotal in thinking among Colonials. Where & how to establish “the line” is tough, when do we no longer “submit” to the civil magistrate, these kinds of questions are tough. The guy with the “defytyranny” website explores the “lesser magistrate” which always leads me to ponder the fact that the earliest ‘rulers’ were simply VICTORS in battle. Anyway, this IS the way we need to be thinking. Biblically based decisions must rule my life. I don’t always do a good job at that in far too many areas, but it is my desire.

Rabbi Will McCubbins
Rabbi Will McCubbins
3 years ago

You guys already know that I think Christianity is pathetic

Rifleman1775
Rifleman1775
3 years ago

Go read your mystic Kabbalah and your blasphemous Talmud. No one here wants to hear your lies. You are a modern-day Pharisee.

Christ is King. His blood is still upon you as your ancestors requested. May the Holy Spirit touch your soul so that you will accept Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamashiach, and turn from your deception, corruption, and wicked ways.
24When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, “I am innocent of this Man’s blood; see to that yourselves.” 25And all the people said, “His blood shall be on us and on our children!” 26Then he released Barabbas for them; but after having Jesus scourged, he handed Him over to be crucified. (Matthew 27:24-26, NASB).

Rabbi Will McCubbins
Rabbi Will McCubbins
3 years ago
Reply to  Rifleman1775

I didn’t wright the talmudic garbage nor do I practice kabbalah. Ive posted many times calling those things satanic. So I’m not the liar here. Genesis 12.

Rifleman1775
Rifleman1775
3 years ago

It does not surprise me that you would mention Genesis 12. However, Genesis 11:28 clearly states Abraham and his family are from Ur. This is an ancient Sumerian city. Sumer is the oldest civilization that is acknowledged by history, older than Babylon, Egypt, and Canaan. Therefore, this idea that if we do not bless/worship modern Israelites and we will be cursed is not accurate. Again, Abraham is not even an ancient Israelite. Abraham has two children Isaac and Ishmael, and in a Biblical sense, Abraham is the father of all of humanity. We are all descendants of Abraham.

Children’s Song: Father Abraham
Father Abraham had many sons
Many sons had Father Abraham
I am one of them and so are you
So let’s just praise the Lord

There are no ancient Israelites until Jacob, Abraham’s grandson, Issac’s son, who is renamed Israel and has 12 sons. Those sons will go on to father the 12 tribes of ancient Israel. So in reality there are no ancient Israelites until Abraham’s great-grandchildren have many children.

Also, the old covenant is null and void. Galatians 3: 26-29 clearly states that you have to accept Christ to be an heir according to the promise given in Genesis 12 to Abraham.

26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3: 26-29, NASB)

Sons Through Faith in Christ

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3: 26-29, KJV)

IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST, YOU ARE NOT AN HEIR/DESCENDANT (spiritually not blood) OF ABRAHAM AND THEREFORE YOU ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE PROMISE GIVEN UNTO HIM.

In addition, if you want to make this a blood thing and not a spiritual thing, the Palestinians are of much closer blood relation to Abraham than modern Israelites. Your last name is testimony to that. Most modern Israelites are Ashkenazi converts of Khazar. Khazar did not convert until 740 Ano Domini, roughly the same time the Babylonian Talmud was written and no longer passed orally.

You should look into Henry Makow, a “self-hating Jew,” however, he receives all the hate he does because he tells the truth. https://www.henrymakow.com/
In closing, Lord Jesus, please touch the souls of all modern Israelites, who are lost from you, so that they may accept you Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and therefore be heirs according to Abraham’s promise again. In your Holy name, Jesus Christ, I pray. Amen.

Rabbi Will McCubbins
Rabbi Will McCubbins
3 years ago
Reply to  Rifleman1775

You are a shining example of all christianity has to offer may you eat all its friut forever. I am not a modern israelite by the way.

Rob
Rob
3 years ago

America has been falling for a long time:
https://sumofthyword.com/2021/01/07/mystery-babylon-the-great-and-her-beast/
But will not be nuked off the planet until after the 7 years of tribulation:
https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

a follower
a follower
3 years ago
Reply to  Rob

Rob,
Have been hearing this for years “Nuked off the planet.” Many preachers seem to go this route, i am not convinced. Not when God commands the universe. i have been going to a site for a number of years and what they are revealing seems more the Truth. 
Consider we are not to fear man nor what he can do to us.
Consider the lies of c -lie -mate change.
Consider the Power of God and His Creation.
Now i do believe man can do some terrible damage to each other, but consider the now occuring Magnetic pole flip, Consider the Solar Flares, Mass Coronal ejections. The 11- 12,000 year cycle that are all of Gods Creation.

a follower
a follower
3 years ago

In my E-mail this morning.
—-- Forwarded Message —--

Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021, 12:22:59 PM EST
Subject: Confronting evil

Spoken like a preacher from pastor Muhlenberg’s Black Robe Regiment of our founding era. The year was 1776 and Peter Muhlenberg is reported to have said to his congregation, after ripping off his pastoral robe and revealing a military uniform, “I am a Clergyman it is true, but I am a member of the Society as well as the poorest layman, and my Liberty is as dear to me as any man, shall I then sit and enjoy myself at Home when the best blood of the Covenant is spilling? So far am I from thinking that I act wrong, I am convinced it is my duty to do so and duly I owe to God and my country.” Pastor MacArthur is not shrinking from what he obviously sees as his duty to both God and country.
 
On Sunday, Pastor-teacher John MacArthur of Grace Community Church offered a stern warning to President Joe Biden following last week’s inauguration. 
MacArthur cautioned Biden on placing his hand on the Bible while pledging “to do the very things that blaspheme His name.”
“You can say whatever you want to say,” he began “but when you touch the ark, when you place your hand on the throne of God, because God is enthroned in His Word, and you place your hand on the Word of God and pledge to do the very things that blaspheme His name.”
“God doesn’t want your respect, He wants your obedience”, MacArthur asserted. 
“Don’t tell me you advocate for the slaughter of babies in the womb,” he continued. “Don’t tell me you want to destroy masculinity, femininity, marriage. Don’t tell me you want to fill the world with LGBTQ people in leadership, you want to justify transgender activity. Don’t tell me you want to invite more Muslims in who represent a religion from Hell and then put your hand on the throne of God.”
MacArthur, who has been pastoring the Los Angeles based church since 1969, made headlines last year for defying the state’s COVID restrictions on houses of worship that resulted in fines and court hearings.
Over a week ago last Sunday, he addressed how mainstream media outlets like ABC, CNN and the Los Angeles Times along with “ungodly bloggers” attempted to discredit his church, The Christian Post reports.
“They tried every way to close Grace Church. And I think it is true that there is no more scrutinized church in the United States of America than Grace Community Church,” MacArthur explained. “I’m still here.” 
MacArthur also alluded to the recent scandals among well-known Christian leaders such as the late apologist Ravi Zacharias and Carl Lentz, the former pastor of Hillsong New York. 
“First of all, phonies are going to have a hard time hiding with the internet. We’re seeing one after another after another,” he noted “Dead ones and alive ones. This dead apologist had a deviant sex life. This cool dude rock and roll pastor was immoral with multiple women for years and years.”
The context of MacArthur’s comments addressed how there is “a superficial Christianity” that has tried to “appeal to nonbelievers” yet they don’t come to saving faith because of the corruption that has taken place amongst its leaders. 
He argued that it would be difficult to call the church to repentance since “superficial Christianity made a lot of money” and “elevated a lot of charlatans.” Nevertheless, he believes that there is currently a “shifting and sifting” between the true church and a false church. 
MacArthur addressed the importance of Christ at the heart of the Christian faith as that is the only way Christianity would have any appeal. 
“We preach Christ, right? And you’re attracted to Him, right? But if there are people out there looking at Christianity, it has to be uninviting, maybe even repulsive. Who are these people? Filthy rich, immoral, corrupt, narcissistic. If it weren’t for Jesus Christ, Christianity would have no appeal,” he argued.