The debt ceiling is currently due to be passed on August 2, 2011. This is a moving target that has already been “adjusted” three times. The government is currently funding our debt by raiding the federal employees’ pension fund. With little movement by either side on what to do on this issue, a new wrinkle is being added by the interpretation of the following section in the 14th amendment:
Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.
If an agreement is not reached soon, it appears that the President will use this portion of the 14th amendment to make the requirement for a debt ceiling to be unconstitutional.
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21xfszl0k-M
How many of our current issues and problems can be attributed to this amendment? Anchor babies, abortion, ten commandments not allowed in courtrooms and elimination of state’s rights are only the beginning of this illegally ratified amendment. Imagine a United States where true history was taught and our 10th amendment rights were restored. I have included an excerpt below from U.S. News and World Report in 1957 concerning this “amendment”.
David DeGerolamo
There is No “Fourteenth Amendment”!
by
David Lawrence
U.S. News & World Report
September 27, 1957
A MISTAKEN BELIEF — that there is a valid article in the Constitution known as the “Fourteenth Amendment” — is responsible for the Supreme Court decision of 1954 and the ensuing controversy over desegregation in the public schools of America. No such amendment was ever legally ratified by three fourths of the States of the Union as required by the Constitution itself. The so-called “Fourteenth Amendment” was dubiously proclaimed by the Secretary of State on July 20, 1868. The President shared that doubt. There were 37 States in the Union at the time, so ratification by at least 28 was necessary to make the amendment an integral part of the Constitution. Actually, only 21 States legally ratified it. So it failed of ratification.
The undisputed record, attested by official journals and the unanimous writings of historians, establishes these events as occurring in 1867 and 1868:
- Outside the South, six States — New Jersey, Ohio, Kentucky, California, Delaware and Maryland — failed to ratify the proposed amendment.
- In the South, ten States — Texas, Arkansas, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi and Louisiana — by formal action of their legislatures, rejected it under the normal processes of civil law.
- A total of 16 legislatures out of 37 failed legally to ratify the “Fourteenth Amendment.”
- Congress — which had deprived the Southern States of their seats in the Senate — did not lawfully pass the resolution of submission in the first instance.
- The Southern States which had rejected the amendment were coerced by a federal statute passed in 1867 that took away the right to vote or hold office from all citizens who had served in the Confederate Army. Military governors were appointed and instructed to prepare the roll of voters. All this happened in spite of the presidential proclamation of amnesty previously issued by the President. New legislatures were thereupon chosen and forced to “ratify” under penalty of continued exile from the Union. In Louisiana, a General sent down from the North presided over the State legislature.
- Abraham Lincoln had declared many times that the Union was “inseparable” and “indivisible.” After his death, and when the war was over, the ratification by the Southern States of the Thirteenth Amendment, abolishing slavery, had been accepted as legal. But Congress in the 1867 law imposed the specific conditions under which the Southern States would be “entitled to representation in Congress.”
- Congress, in passing the 1867 law that declared the Southern States could not have their seats in either the Senate or House in the next session unless they ratified the “Fourteenth Amendment,” took an unprecedented step. No such right — to compel a State by an act of Congress to ratify a constitutional amendment — is to be found anywhere in the Constitution. Nor has this procedure ever been sanctioned by the Supreme Court of the United States.
- President Andrew Johnson publicly denounced this law as unconstitutional. But it was passed over his veto.
- Secretary of State Seward was on the spot in July 1868 when the various “ratifications” of a spurious nature were placed before him. The legislatures of Ohio and New Jersey had notified him that they rescinded their earlier action of ratification. He said in his official proclamation that he was not authorized as Secretary of State “to determine and decide doubtful questions as to the authenticity of the organization of State legislatures or as to the power of any State legislature to recall a previous act or resolution of ratification.” He added that the amendment was valid “if the resolutions of the legislatures of Ohio and New Jersey, ratifying the aforesaid amendment, are to be deemed as remaining of full force and effect, notwithstanding the subsequent resolutions of the legislatures of these States.” This was a very big “if.” It will be noted that the real issue, therefore, is not only whether the forced “ratification” by the ten Southern States was lawful, but whether the withdrawal by the legislatures of Ohio and New Jersey — two Northern States — was legal. The right of a State, by action of its legislature, to change its mind at any time before the final proclamation of ratification is issued by the Secretary of State has been confirmed in connection with other constitutional amendments.
- The Oregon Legislature in October 1868 — three months after the Secretary’s proclamation was issued — passed a rescinding resolution, which argued that the “Fourteenth Amendment” had not been ratified by three fourths of the States and that the “ratifications” in the Southern States were “usurpations, unconstitutional, revolutionary and void” and that, “until such ratification is completed, any State has a right to withdraw its assent to any proposed amendment.”
Your post is trumped by SCOTUS…sorry!
PERRY V. UNITED STATES, 294 U. S. 330 (1935)
The government’s contention thus raises a question of far greater importance than the particular claim of the plaintiff. On that reasoning, if the terms of the government’s bond as to the standard of payment can be repudiated, it inevitably follows that the obligation as to the amount to be paid may also be repudiated. The contention necessarily imports that the Congress can disregard the obligations of the government at its discretion, and that, when the government borrows money, the credit of the United States is an illusory pledge…
The Constitution gives to the Congress the power to borrow money on the credit of the United States, an unqualified power, a power vital to the government, upon which in an extremity its very life may depend. The binding quality of the promise of the United States is of the essence of the credit which is so pledged. Having this power to authorize the issue of definite obligations for the payment of money borrowed, the Congress has not been vested with authority to alter or destroy those obligations.
“In Perry V. United States, 294 U. S. 330 (1935), the Supreme Court decided that Congress does not have the authority to renege on obligations it has incurred for the United States.”
This may be true but we are talking about whether the 14th amendment supersedes Congressional authority to place a cap on governmental spending. Just because I have a credit card with a $10,000 limit does not entitle me to spend $11,000. I don’t think the founding fathers had this in mind when they wrote the Constitution (well Hamilton probably did). If Perry v. United States does eliminate the need for a congressionally approved debt ceiling since 1935, then why do we have one? Either way, debt ceiling or not, the United States is bankrupt several times over.
Despite the web of deceit broadcast by advocates in the Obama government, the constitution does not grant “an unqualified power, a power vital to the government”. The constitution is a grant of specific and limited powers. ( Article 1 Section 8 )
The phrase from the 14th Amendment, invoked by the Whitehouse to argue against the legitimacy of a debt ceiling, was constructed specifically to embrace the debts of the Union States and repudiate financial obligations of the Confederate States. (The Ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment, Joseph B. James, 1984) It has no other intended meaning.
Neither congress nor the president is vested with authority to destroy these united States by amassing such debt that the interest can no longer be serviced.
Over the last half century, policies of both political parties have created unfunded liabilities in excess of the net US public and private assets. ( http://www.usdebtclock.org )
Do Not Raise The Debt Ceiling. Do Not Default on Debt Obligations.
End the Marxian welfare state. It is past time to stop the madness.
I wonder how we can amass a debt that is a paper debt? A digital entry in a log somewhere? Is the value of the United States determined by how much paper there is either in circulation or in a ledger? Does value reside in paper? Is paper a just weight and measure? Can one piece of paper which is the same size and weight as another really be worth more than the other simply because it has a larger number printed on it? Did the founders think that paper was the measure of worth and value? Where does property and land and food come into the picture? Do you suppose there is any value in these things? How about labor and our ability to perform it?
What do you think: If you have only 1 million dollars of paper money and I own 100 acres of fertile land on which I grow food, will you survive the winter eating paper? everything else being equal?
We have departed from right thinking and have lost sight of what is truly of value in this country. We have placed our faith in an economic system that is based upon falsehoods and deception and allowed a private cartel to dictate to us what is truth while all the while they are, through deception, stealing the true wealth of this country, our land, with their valueless paper creations. Our greatest enemy has become the truth. Just try to have truth recognized in court or within the economic system, you will find it impossible because the system itself is false and based upon deception. It will be our downfall as it has every society that has resorted to it. We will not be the exception.
Truth is, this so called debt, being nothing more than a created paper debt can be dissolved as easily as it was created, by the stroke of a pen.
Bill is absolutely correct. Are you ready to give up your paper for your children’s freedom?