If you are a devout Christian, Jew or Muslim, fair warning — you may find this post offensive. I am not trying to offend, but I do plan to present and challenge the theological claims contained in the Book of Genesis aka Bereshit (aka Hebrew for “in the beginning”). The entire claim that Zionists have regarding their right to inhabit all land from the Nile in the west to the Euphrates in the east, stems from promises allegedly made by a person, or persons, claiming to be “God” to a fellow named, Abram. All of this belief is contingent on a separate belief — i.e., that the Pentateuch was written by Moses based on what “God” told him. If you believe that “God” spoke to Moses more than 3,000 years ago and that Moses had ample supplies of paper, ink and a writing instrument to record everything that “God” said, then it is an easy leap to be a Zionist.
Any one who believes this is the way the narrative goes in the article is Truly wrong. They do not understand the Bible nor do they know the True God of the Bible! They do not understand Abraham nor the related stories of! That said, Painting the picture with the broad brush is also wrong.
This article not only mocks the FALSE it Mocks and ridicules the TRUTH!
i do not claim the word christian for a number of reasons, so do not put me in your oh, so convenient box of bull shit either!
Ample supplies of paper? Are you flipping serious??????????????
I’m glad you’re here to bring us all the truth. It would appear you are the only human being who has it.
Since words mean things, how would you explain to a person with no religious affiliation or belief that is reading the Bible for the first time that Larry is wrong?
While your interpretation may vary, why not give us your evidence rather than blowing emotional smoke? I get that you strongly believe what you believe, but shouldn’t you be able to give evidence for it?
No i am not the only one of Truth. i do not claim to be wise in anything. i am following the Wise One through His Son.(working on it.) You see many disregard the Son part. That is largely why the world is currently at this juncture. The world at large denies the Son, many without even realizing what they are doing,(Just as Peter did three times,) Look at them all mired down in the Torah, the old testament. Speak of the Son and you get labeled, you get mocked, scorned tongue lashed. we were warned, tis time to embrace this or die trying.
Larry is not providing us with ‘evidence.’ Only thoughts, opinion, philosophy etc.
my evidence seems to be mine only, if i share it will come to nothing, just mocking and ridicule.
Is it more likely that the Bible is completely false or that men use it to their advantage instead of the way God intended?
More complete answer tried to edit above but did not seem to take.
No i am not the only one of Truth. i do not claim to be wise in anything. i am following the Wise One through His Son.(working on it.) You see many disregard the Son part. That is largely why the world is currently at this juncture. The world at large denies the Son, many without even realizing what they are doing,(Just as Peter did three times,) Look at them all mired down in the Torah, the old testament. Speak of the Son and you get labeled, you get mocked, scorned tongue lashed. we were warned, tis time to embrace this or die trying.
Larry is not providing us with ‘evidence.’ Only thoughts, opinion, philosophy etc.
my evidence seems to be mine only, if i share it will come to nothing, just mocking and ridicule.
Is it more likely that the Bible is completely false or that men use it to their advantage instead of the way God intended?
Have you ever watched the movie Book of Eli?
Why did evil want the only copy of this so bad/ Now think of the two -- three sides in the physical earthly sense, sides who have wrestled with this for so long, each demanding sole control?
Is it more likely that the Bible is completely false or that men use it to their advantage instead of the way God intended? If you believe this to be so, where do you find your ‘truth?’
Have you ever watched the movie Book of Eli? Yes.
Why did evil want the only copy of this so bad/ Now think of the two — three sides in the physical earthly sense, sides who have wrestled with this for so long, each demanding sole control? By the ‘copy of this’ I assume you mean the Bible? If so, we do not have the original autographs (Scriptures), only copies of copies of copies. By the three sides I assume you mean Jews, Christians, and Muslims? If so, they have different books (Tanach, Bible, Koran).
Well Roth, it is difficult to take seriously what a self identified apostate / pagan is posting. But you tear into “Bereshith” without comprehending what is said in its first three words. “Bereshith bara Elohim” . In the beginning the impossible plural singular word,”God (s)”, aka The Trinity. You ask for evidence? Special creation is your answer. Because evolution is a biological impossibility with zero evidence to support it. Unlike your “myths” the facts of creation are evident in nature. And yes, I actually am a biologist with international degrees in the topic. Repent while you still have the option.
Don’t whaste your time.
Gotta love autofill
Yep.
Amen and Amen.
… it is difficult to take seriously what a self identified apostate / pagan is posting. It’s been said intolerance often comes from ignorance. So you’re saying the only information you will accept or even want to view is Christian? Discount everything else? So what variety? Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian … ? The post began with If you are a devout Christian, Jew or Muslim, fair warning — you may find this post offensive. So why did you even read it?
But you tear into “Bereshith” … I didn’t tear into anything. I simply offered an opinion piece from a respected source.
… aka The Trinity. Even in Bible College I was taught that there is no direct evidence for this in Scripture. Only hints. It wasn’t until the Third Council of Constantinople in the 7th Century that Jesus was declared fully God and fully man. So even the ‘church’ didn’t accept the doctrine until then.
… evolution is a biological impossibility… I don’t disagree.
You ask for evidence? Special creation is your answer. I have never doubted a Creator. Simple logic. Effect requires a cause. Therefore creation requires a Creator.
I actually am a biologist with international degrees in the topic. And I have a degree in Bible, with honors, from Piedmont Baptist College and Grad School, so I think I have some notion of what I speak. Unlike some, I was open minded enough to continue my studies beyond fundamentalism.
To be precise as to my beliefs, I consider myself a Deist (just like Thomas Jefferson and several others of our Founders). I consider the Bible to be largely Jewish mythology. Neither in Bible College or in my additional studies can I find any historical evidence, contemporary to the times, for the glorious Kingdom of Solomon, Moses, Joseph, or Jesus. Paul lived and wrote fifty years after the alleged events and had no way to corroborate them. One would think with the alleged miraculous events involved, that the Egyptians and Romans would have noticed. I recently read the following comment, “My favorite part of the Bible is when Jesus spoke to God alone and someone who wasn’t there wrote it all down.“
Since I view the Bible as Jewish mythology and Jews are not my people, and since I’ve already studied Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, I prefer to spend time, now, in the mythology of my pre-Christian ancestors. That doesn’t mean that I find no value in the Bible. I just don’t accept it as literal history.
Repent while you still have the option. The word repent means to turn away from sin. I think I’ve done that. I’ve committed no ‘mortal sins’ and follow the Nine Noble Virtues of my ancestors: Honor, courage, self-reliance, industriousness, fidelity, disciple, hospitality, truth, and perseverance. When one consults Scripture, one will find a number of characters that ‘God’ calls ‘righteous’. They didn’t need a ‘savior’. I’m comfortable facing my Creator, when the time comes, just as you seem to be. If I’m wrong and you’re right I’ll burn, but I find it difficult to imagine a loving Father doing that. Yahwewh yes, Father of the NT no. If you’re wrong and I’m right it won’t matter. No harm to you. Believe what you want. I just find attacks by Christians against anyone not towing the line to be tiresome.
Oh, and one last thing. How has anything you wrote, or I wrote pertain directly to the post? It was an opinion piece. Why always attack based on religion?
i have answered you and has been removed. will try again.
Reply to Roth
No i am not the only one of Truth. i do not claim to be wise in anything. i am following the Wise One through His Son.(working on it.) You see many disregard the Son part. That is largely why the world is currently at this juncture. The world at large denies the Son, many without even realizing what they are doing,(Just as Peter did three times,) Look at them all mired down in the Torah, the old testament. Speak of the Son and you get labeled, you get mocked, scorned tongue lashed. we were warned, tis time to embrace this or die trying.
Larry is not providing us with ‘evidence.’ Only thoughts, opinion, philosophy etc.
“my evidence” seems to be mine only, if i share it will come to nothing, just mocking and ridicule.
Is it more likely that the Bible is completely false or that men use it to their advantage instead of the way God intended?
Also ; Have you ever seen the Movie The Book of Eli?
Why did evil seek to have and control this Book ?
Is this a common thing still practiced today by the prevailing religions?
pot meet kettle…
last post on this website. best to all
What is Wicca? A Beginner’s Guide to the Wiccan Religion – Wicca Living Is this your god mother earth, is this who you worship, mother earth?
Sigh … No I’m not Wiccan. Why do you care who I worship? Since neither you nor I nor anyone else knows who or what the Creator is, I worship The Creator of All. That seems a safe bet and shouldn’t cause anyone but a zealot to get their shorts in a twist. Belief is not proof.
It’s not worthwhile here Lon. This is not an intellectual problem.
i understand why you say this, yet, are we (some)not called to speak up regardless of if they will listen? Perhaps a few seeds will get through?
i can see how Roth and many others have gotten to this point.
I know where you’re coming from and I appreciate that. It truly is mostly time to shake the dust off though.
Don’t miss the comments. There are some interesting ones. Case in point:
“You might be interested in a podcast between Tom Woods, a Catholic, and his Lutheran friend, from when they attended Harvard University, who is now a pastor. They discuss how Evangelical Christianity accepted novelties that do not exist in the Bible about end-times prophecy about Zionism, [ <— a political and military ideology, not a religious one for Christians.]
Podcast Brief: Millions of American Christians have come to believe in a heterodox theology according to which the physical return of the Jewish people to their ancestral lands is necessary to bring about the return of Christ and the end of the world.
You can hear the podcast at TomWoods.com or on YouTube:
http://tomwoods.com/ep-2413-bad-theology-israel-the-rapture-and-the-end-times/
Or you can see it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIqetXI22aw
It, at least explains, the role of Christian Zionists and the Dispensationalists.
Note: I was raised Catholic, attended Parochial school for 8 years and I was never taught anything about the necessity of the Jews returning to their ancestral lands as a pre-requisite for the return of Christ. Later in my 30s, I learned how Theodor Herzl visited the monarchs on the European continent who all rejected his idea. These monarchs were mostly Catholic. Then he visited the Pope, who rejected the idea. Why would the RCC support that, when the land there belongs to us? You’ll see how this sentiment fits into the above-linked podcast.
Do you know who took Herzl up on his idea? Baron Benjamin de Rothschild.
The Balfour Declaration was paid back to Rothschild for financing Britain during WWI. All the very early settlements and the large tracts of land were purchased by Baron Benjamin de Rothschild. Back then these settlements were done peacefully. Then there’s the whole matter of Laurence of Arabia story when Britain promised all the Hashemite Arabs all of the same land returning to their control if they helped the British defeat the Ottomans—which they did. What a mighty mess.”
Two days ago you were telling us of the importance of a Good Myth. How ironic that now you are here. Posting more trash.
“Let me suggest an alternative hypothesis — the exiled Jewish scholars sitting in Babylon, after being carried off by their Persian captors, decided to write down the oral tradition, best they could remember, and, in the course of writing this, created the rationale for returning to the lands they previously inhabited. And they emphasized that “God” gave it to them and nobody else. Who is to say that some of those writers were not as gifted as Shakespeare and had a knack for telling a good story?
Double minded men are also something we are warned about and as of late there seems to be a never ending supply of these?
Never ending story? There is another mythical story of garbage that has aided and abated evil!
Roth— i am ticked at so many things at this juncture. we can see so many lies that have been told and false teachings. i do see some truth in what you are putting out, but the misdirection puts me over the edge. Not listening much to the Catholics, some bits and pieces, maybe, Non of these “Religious organizations” have all the pieces.
Anyone any group, flat out fighting and murdering each other, over a chunk of dirt in the middle east so they can have and erect the True temple to God may have been misled a bit!
“Roth— i am ticked at so many things at this juncture. we can see so many lies that have been told and false teachings.”
Well, at least we can agree on that.
From the comments in the essay and something that rings true, to me. “I was also raised as a Catholic. Years of Catholic grade school was enough to convince me that there was something wrong with that religion, and as I grew older, I realized that there is something wrong with all formal religions. They all use selective logic, accept what agrees with their way of thinking and reject what is not.“
As i have said before we agree on many things. Do not think i am angry with you so much, i see the positive side of posting what i called trash. It brings something out of me (He calls me to say) that needs to be said. Some will hear it, some will not.
James 1:8
At least Roth will defend his comments.
Do I agree, don’t know yet, much prayer required.
enough.
NO it is NOT.
Is there ANYTHING in the Bible you will ACTUALLY DEFEND?
Or do you fold like the above exchange in from one mild reply from Roth?
I know Roth can email you personally if he and you NEEDED a Private conversation. Roth’s emailed me out of the blue about two years ago when comments were closed on a subject of his.
A house built on sand falls. How much of the rock of the Bible are you going to defend?
Like the Martyr comment from previous:
a follower, working on it.
1 day ago
Reply to Roth Harbard
Religion, does seem to be where many things go sideways. His Spirit as far as i can tell is still available to those who will listen. He is here, in the flesh. Many say they are waiting for Him. This is where many are going wrong. imo. i for one do not believe He is coming to baby sit us physically. He has never done this. He wants us to follow His Son and Him now.
People seem to miss the Spiritual side of the Word. This is where many are lacking. They want to take everything in only the physical sense. On the surface i get what you are saying. it looks as if evil has taken the win. Yet i know this is impossible in the overall big picture.
we are supposed to lead by example, speak up when danger is in our midst. Stop evil if you are in the right place at the right time! Commiting suicide or intentionally becoming a Martyr is not the correct path! imo. Speaking up is hard to continue doing when no one seems to want to listen,(not complaining) yet we persevere, and there are many rewards, private rewards, small real miracles, along the way. Rewards, gifts, talents, it is in the small things. small daily things that so many take for granted.
People do courageous things daily, why do you not recognize them? Because the world is geared towards the opposite.
Last edited 1 day ago by a follower, working on it.
Reply
Michael
Michael
1 day ago
Reply to a follower, working on it.
History is full of the Honorable Men and Women that took one for Christ.
we are supposed to lead by example, speak up when danger is in our midst. Stop evil if you are in the right place at the right time! Commiting suicide or intentionally becoming a Martyr is not the correct path! imo.
Glad Jesus didn’t bug out from the Garden of Gethsemane to avoid becoming a martyr.
Christan, being Christ like I’ve been told.
Reply
What will you actually defend Follower? You say you’ve been here 8 years when you complained to David. What does FOLLOWER WORKING ON IT actually STAND FOR?
What i was referring to is launching an all out assault on D.C. or some other perceived enemy Jews etc. from blind hate and vengeance. i like you do not think we are to become like the enemy to defeat the enemy.
You embellish and lie. i was not complaining to David about here for 8 years. i was imploring him to provide you with some Truth about YOUR lies and accusations. REMEMBER? You even apologized. well i guess we can see what your apology is worth!
Enough now?
Need proof? Dont know how long David will put up with this nonsense but here we go!
https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d824f525857da0e741241bdc6e250fa2?s=64&r=pg
a follower
1 day ago
Reply to DRenegade
Some body continued to whine about it. Someone who I tried to help. He then went as far as to accuse me of having multiple addresses. David , you could clear that up for both of us. 8-10 years here, I do not even know how to have multip.e names nor addresses!
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Author
DRenegade
1 day ago
Reply to a follower
I did not think you were the one responsible for using a VPN on the down votes. I have a good idea who it was and their comments are blacklisted over multiple IP addresses. But I have no control over the up and down arrows so they are gone.
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a follower, working on it.
1 day ago
Reply to DRenegade
Thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps that will help Michael and i clear some things up. i do not understand why you continue to remove decent comments, that possibly could change us in a positive direction. More were removed. Why? With ‘His’ guidance perhaps we could get back on course and give aid to one another. Then perhaps we would see real positive attitudes. N.C. Renegade is yours, i understand yet it could be more than just a News sight if you would allow it (another Leap of faith?)
we let Frank Avalone slip by, that also could have been a lesson, a learning experience. (things are not always as they appear.
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Author
DRenegade
1 day ago
Reply to a follower, working on it.
The rules for comments are clearly stated. If people saw all of the comments that are submitted to this site, they would understand why these policies are implemented.
It takes too much of my time moderating comments. Foul language, death threats, off topic comments, trolls and ignorance are common but the readers don’t see them.
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a follower, working on it.
19 hours ago
Reply to DRenegade
i understand and agree, what you are saying about the rules etc. Do you see what i am suggesting?
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Fido
1 day ago
Reply to a follower
*I* have multiple IP addresses… or rather *one* IP address that changes frequently. Not much I can do about that.
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Michael
1 day ago
Reply to a follower
Well, somebody who is an adult apologizes as you said and David confirms you were not the abuser of down arrows.
Wine err whine is best chilled in a cup.
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a follower, working on it.
1 day ago
Reply to Michael
Thanks Michael. i do appreciate this.
Waiting for approval on the proof if David allows it. Everything is on this thread about my 8 years comment.
https://ncrenegade.com/attitudes/#comments
What part of the BIBLE will you defend oh Master Deflector?
Lon compare this here to the study yesterday remember don’t beat your head against the wall !
You may find this offensive, Deu 13:5 to 13:18, is man more intelligent today than 3,000 years ago? The inverted fallen angel runs this world and everything in it.
Tom, Have you looked in to Jehu of the Bible and read the rest of the story? i listen also and read some of Jonathan Cahn.
Have not read into Jehu as of late follower, I will, they will beat on you some more for mentioning Jonathan Cahn. Just remember, Pro 15:1 and 2.
i know. i agree we should not take everything or everyone, as ultimate Truth, but we can glean some Truth from many sources. Important to see what Jehu is all about. He is not the ultimate answer to our prayers. If Trump is a Jehu figure He is here for a reason. And people would do well to see what this is.
There is so much confusion in this world. This is just more of it. You know, you answer someone when they truly have questions and want a discussion, not an argument. Otrherwise, you answer not a fool, according to the Bible.God is not a theory--evolution is. I’m glad you pointed out the verses that use plural pronouns when talking about God. They are key to understanding Him. There is one family. Key. I John1:1 Key. The Bible takes years of study. It cannot be understood without prayer nor God Himself opening the mind. I read the article. And I have learned that this is not the site I want to spend my time on, so I am unsubscribing. See you later.
Roth if you want to help these Christians recover. Would you please post an article about the origin s of the Christians holy days. Christmas. Easter.and of course sunday sabbath. ? The keyboard Renegades might love that.
How about an article of worship in the groves and high places Roth, enlighten us poor souls.
Yes! Glad you brought that up. Why worship the Creator inside a building when one is closer to Him in a natural setting? I have never felt the presence of the Divine more clearly than on mountain tops in the Rocky Mountains. Buildings fail in comparison. I’ve heard many Christian men say they’ve felt closer to God in a tree stand or while fishing than when in church. It’s been said the God and nature are one. Nature is the body of God and God is the mind of nature. Something to consider.
Read the book “The Two Babylons” by Hislop, or you can watch the YouTube series “Know Your Enemy”. For Sunday sabbath, you can read Gibbons “Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire”. Constantine basically merged Christianity with paganism, including moving the sabbath to Sun Day (their normal pagan worship day), celebrating Saturnalia (last half of December), spring worship of the pagan fertility goddess Astoroth or Eastoroth (Easter), and renaming gods and goddesses into ‘Christian’ saints.
Or you can just look at the fruit of the holidays. Christmas: commerce, stuff, drunkenness, gluttony, lying to children, etc. Easter: fertility stuff like eggs and bunnies, more lying to children, etc.
Will is right. I am a Christian, but keep the sabbath and the feasts because the Bible says to, even the New Testament. Worse yet, when you realize where Christmas and Easter (and Sunday sabbath) came from you repent in dust and ashes (which I did).
Where do you shabbat? We have a Messianic synagogue in nc. And you are welcome anytime
Thanks very much; it sounds wonderful, but we live in Northern Maine, where the town far off has hitching posts for your horse at the post office and grocery store (gas station too, go figure!). I wish we had one around here.
Actually I written a book covering that subject and a lot more. It’s my journey and how I came to what I believe today. Heed the Call The direct answer to your question is that much of the symbolism and the holidays celebrated by Christians are pagan. When Christianity was forced on Europe the people didn’t want to give up their indigenous faith. So the ‘church’ used syncretism to mollify them. Sabbath means seventh (remember the Sabbath -seventh- day and keep it holy. Oops …
The last time Roth and I really bashed heads the bottom line was:
Don’t harm another man’s FAITH. When *hit hits the fan like Western NC their FAITH is often all they have to drive on for ONE MORE DAY.
If the POINT of this Blog is to UNIFY Patriots “of all stripes” (or so I’ve heard once or twice) then BASHING FAITH is a VERY ODD WAY TO UNIFY.
David, please feel free to BLOCK my IP so you don’t have to hear from me again.
That way I’ll not weaken and start again. I left before but Followers rent a Religious Blogger brought me back.
If this shit is thought of as Unifying, why bother posting here?
“Let us” is old English. This was a poor translation most often used in the King James version. Even today the phrase “we the queen of England” has been used. The purpose to to communicate the majesty, supposedly of the position.
The reason “let us” is accepted is because the doctrine of the trinity crept in 325 A.D. The “us” is supposed to refer to the godhead father, son and holy spirit. The trinitarians love the “let us” translation. Jesus Christ was born, he is our lord and savior, but not with God in the beginning. This will not likely set well with many.
Maybe you should read Pro 8:1 to 8:36, reread it if you have to.
The entire chapter deals with wisdom. What am I missing in relation to what I blogged?