by Rev. Smith
The other day, “Roth Harbard” aka Malachi posted about the problematic nature of mixed race marriages. I thought the comments were a mix of gentle push back and irrelevant “whataboutism.” Roth emailed and we had a pleasant and fruitful discussion. With his permission, I’m sharing some of our exchange. We covered both the inter-faith issue and the mixed-marriage issue.
My background: I am a Christian. I’m a prison, hospital, and police chaplain. In the 30+ years of this work I have interacted with hundreds who do not share my Christian faith, including officers who are Wiccan and Norse pagans. Also, I’m a staunch Anglican who enjoys reverent liturgy, while rubbing elbows all day with folks of no faith or having low-church worship styles such as Pentecostals and Baptists. I’ve developed thick skin. Working in this space has taught me to start with looking for sincerity and character. This allows the start of dialogue and sharing of perspectives not hindered by defensiveness and misunderstanding. Example, when someone tells me they are an atheist, I usually reply, “Tell me about the god you don’t believe in because I probably don’t believe in him either.”
I started my email reply to Roth:
Thanks for reaching out. You hit on a key matter and that is that pagans and Christians need to find a way to work together. When the time comes, there will indeed be an “ecumenism of the trenches” that focuses on common objectives. So why don’t we start by working on this now? I love history and am proud of my Celtic and Germanic heritage, so I enjoy discussing things with my pagan friends.
People lament that the Left practices solidarity while the Right fractures at the drop of a hat… Then they go on to argue with their brothers on the Right about stuff not relevant to our common cause. Do you see the problem with this? One of the Church Fathers said, “In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, and in all things charity.” What a thought! Making common cause with folks who don’t ascribe to our every belief! Of course, faith essentials are not up for debate, but we’re talking about organizing a dissident Right cause to take back culture and protect our kids, not hammering out a creed. I’ve never met Baptist canned goods or a pagan First Aid kit. These essentials are needed and should be offered to our brothers in the struggle, regardless of faith perspective.
I went on to discuss some of the “why” of misunderstanding and defensiveness:
I have found that the best way for me to keep this open-mindedness in front of me is to look at intentions, sincerity, and fundamental orientation. If you’re trying to protect the traditional family and save Western civilization then you are my brother. Even if you worship in a different way for a different god. I look for the points of agreement. And as a prison chaplain… I have developed a pretty good eye for religious zeal that’s in service to propping up ego. So I try not to get “riled up.” I see such folks as motivated by fear and in need of help, not derision. They are brusque with others at times because they are still trying to convince themselves. If I show them God’s love then their need to make a “strong presentation” is lessened and we can just talk man to man.
So, back to the matter of cooperation among pagans and Christians… The hard part is that one of the dissident Right’s biggest needs is extremely close bonds of fellowship to weed out losers and enemies, and to harden us for what lies ahead. Issue is, religious bonds are the main way people forge these strong commitments. A difference in faith makes cooperation more difficult. But again, we can choose to focus on common objectives. I am not sure how to further this mutual understanding and respect… But efforts to this end should take place… somebody’s gonna have to work on this someday.
Finally, I responded to Roth’s specific point regarding racial inter-marriage:
Now, it seems your post had an element of concern about racial mixing as problematic. You can certainly raise this concern, but most Christians … don’t think in terms of human biodiversity. “Noticing” the downside is not encouraged and a good deal of these folks have an almost allergic reaction to even mentioning kinship as a common good to be honored. Efforts to call attention to the blessings of kinship will require a lot of patience and creatively educating others. You certainly have an audience on the NCR site and may sway some to this understanding. I will pipe up from time to time in your comments and try to fairly call it as I see it.
My approach to race relations and inter-marriage differs significantly from Roth’s. (If I understand correctly, he advocates for racial separatism while I do not). In my reply I chose to search for common ground. You see, I share his concerns but not all his solutions. (Before you call me out for openly stating the downside of diversity, answer me this – How many of you live in a Haitian, Venezuelan, or Congolese enclave? I thought so. Let’s be honest – When us “normie” conservatives move to the country we are not secret racists. And it’s also true that when our Norse pagan brothers talk about the value of kinship they are not advocating white supremacy.
I concluded with my reason for not sharing his view on racial separatism:
I am fascinated by our European heritage and appreciate the efforts of those promoting solidarity and respect. But an ethnostate and rigid separations are not to my liking. I am too captivated by the vision of the New Jerusalem… That home, according to Revelation 21, into which the “kings of the earth shall bring their glory.”
23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there.
There is a glory proper to each ethne or nation. God ordained this and their kings’ glory will be welcome and honored in the holy city.
I have enjoyed writing this reply and again, thanks for reaching out. I’m thinking this type of dialogue is really needed…
Tim J. Smith, M.Div.
Chaplain, Multi-County Correctional Center
I’m a Buddhist and I know several Buddhists who are solidly in the Right, dissident or otherwise.
i agree, we do need these discussions. these discussions lead to us hashing things out and perhaps changing hearts and minds. i do not want or need Roth to leave nor stop posting. we need to figure out how to communicate amongst ourselves. if we get knocked around, so be it, get back up and move forward. Consider all views.
Thanks for your post.
Unfortunately, God says in his holy word, what does light have to do with darkness, it has nothing whatsoever, even if they are on the right side of issues. Paul said many times if the people who you preach the word to don’t want to hear it then we are commanded to shake the dust of our feet and move on to the next town. I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you from a non-biblical standpoint, but this not what the Bible instructs us to do. We are to preach the word in season and out of season and if they refuse to hear it then we need not to proselytize to them, because our words are fallen on deaf ears.
Understood, yet i believe far to many use that verse to often and sometimes in a holier than thou way. Have noticed this through the years, people move on church to church very quickly not willing to have any confrontation.
We should never think we are holier than thou , but we must listen and heed what the spirit of the Lord commands us to do . We are not to listen to carnal men, they will surely deceive us if we do.
i agree.
Sir, my example of canned goods and first aid as a type of mutual support should have alerted you to the fact that we are talking about basic humane support among all folks on the Right. I also share the Gospel with others. AND also look for ways to help them as neighbors and receive their help. We can do both things…. Preach Christ and share and serve together as neighbors.
Yes, and that is all good to do but good works does not get us into heaven. God looks at all of us as filthy detestable rags but thanks to his Son and his death on the cross Christ stands in the gap for us and the Father looks at us as his children by adoption thru his sons death, Gods tells us when we do good things from our heart it’s not to gain kudos from those good works because it’s a work of the heart. God teaches us we should not know what our left hand is doing from the right hand. Works is the manifestation of us being saved and that is only by his grace and salvation because he loves us. Men have a tendency to think and believe the more they do The more Gods will accept them and this is not the case, it’s your faith in Christ that is your anchor that saves you.
“God looks at all of us as filthy detestable rags”
Gee, makes me glad that my relationship with my gods isn’t toxic.
Rev. Smith,
Thanks for working with the folks you see every day, they are likely most in need of your faith. We need more people who see those of any faith as brothers. Whether they are Pagan, Muslim, Christian, Wiccan, Buddhist, whatever, they are aligned against evil, and there is already far too much evil present in the power structures of this world. We should set aside our differences, and find strength in our commonalities.
Anyone who fights against evil is my brother.
If you’re trying to protect the traditional family and save Western civilization then you are my brother
The left has only ONE god…. Communism. Islam has only ONE god…Allah. the right has a metric TON of different gods to worship. That is a fundamental fact….reality. And because the right does NOT have one god to guide them they are fractured, disorganized and at odds with each other. That is why the conservative right is doomed. Either islam or communism will prevail. I suspect islam will eventually win because it’s adherents are fanatical to the point of suicide…even communists won’t go that far. They will happily kill others but generally won’t sacrifice their own lives.
My daughter dated a Mexican US citizen, second generation. He had employment and an automobile, and is attending a prominent University. He is a Catholic and my daughter is 7th Day Adventist. Cultures were different slightly. I did not speak about the disparity of our families. None the less, one day another female caught his eye, and when she caught wind of it, well, she cried for a week. The problem I see salt and pepper unions is a difference of cultures. Whites do not immerse themselves in the black culture, and blacks, while a few may, do not join white society.
Inter racial relationships. Demography. Assimilation. Extinction. Segregation is the only way to save the White demographic. White people are a very small part of the world population. And shrinking very fast. Due to low birth rate of White couples and assimilation by non Whites. Not difficult to understand. It’s not racism. It’s legitimate demographic self interest.
I agree with Roth / Malachi. I am not a supporter of interracial marriage. Perhaps it’s my own bias, but I’m not, and to risk voicing the taboo especially so when it comes to mixing white and black(*). I am also of the mindset of you do you, and I’ll do me. If you’re good with it, I’m not going to stand in your way, but it doesn’t mean I agree with your view.
(*) I read a rather interesting article several years ago making the argument that in general Black males are so “Gone” that in order to save the black race that black women need to start marrying outside of their race. Given that the figures that don’t lie show that blacks, ~11% of the US population commit >60% of the violent crime, well that says a lot.
I know that’s not savory, and we’re supposed to pretend they’re the same, but the numbers say otherwise. To quote someone from another venue: “Anytime you take any group of people, and from a young age, teach them that they are marginalized, that they should hate another race, that they should ignore all laws because they’re against you, and that they should take what they want from any person or business owned by any race other than their own this is what happens.
This didn’t happen overnight.”
No, if I had children, marrying a black would not be acceptable.
So what exactly is Paganism? Where and what groups did it come from? Who introduced it and combined it with Christianity?
Man’s traditions? Halloween? Christmas?, Valentines day? Are we strong enough to discuss without loosing our minds? i became aware a few years ago of non-believers who celebrate Christmas and i began considering many things that we do as a society, a culture, all creeds, all tribes, regardless of our beliefs and who we say we are..
What is your personal definition of Christian? Christ like?
i lost my taste for the word Christian a while back after looking at what we have become. however i still see the individuals outside the group!
myself, i think it is to be Christ like an imitation of sorts as the Bible says. And yes i am a cheap imitation, yet we are to strive for better.
His Word leads me to believe He does not hold well with man’s traditions. There also comes a time when He does not think well of our music etc. i believe we are in these times.
A good read if you’d like to know how Paganism crept into Christianity read Alexander Hislop’s “The Two Babylon’s”.
https://www.biblebelievers.com/babylon/
Thank you. i am aware of much of this (through other sources) and i do wish more people would look into these thing them selves.