Absolutely Certainly Again

      
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Julie
Julie
8 months ago

So, if I understand this correctly, a nations’ actions will define the ferocity of any attack. That reasoning also applies to attacks against ANY nation, including the United States. Yes, a nation bear responsibility for its actions unless and until that nation is ROGUE from the ideals of its Constitution and founding beliefs. Sounds like you just made a great argument for rape and mass murder of U.S. citizens, even though we have ZERO representation of PEOPLE, just representation of its corporations. HMMM

DRenegade
Admin
8 months ago
Reply to  Julie

For everyone: the above article has two separate links: one to the article and the bottom link to the general site. I will assume that the author on NCRenegade put this link up for discussion and that the “you” that you refer to is the author on the other site. I do not agree with the article’s content and will respond with my own article. I want readers to understand the content of the above article and its assumptions on a personal basis. I have read it twice now and am still thinking about its content. I do believe God is in control and there are some things that we just have to accept as His will. I also know that there is too much misinformation and misdirection in this world that has been in place for over a decade (and probably) longer.

tom finley
tom finley
8 months ago
Reply to  Roth Harbard

I do not subscribe to hate the Jew, you do so at your own risk, you either believe what Gods word says or you do not.

tom finley
tom finley
8 months ago
Reply to  Roth Harbard

Also, there is no such thing as a Palestinian state or people, that is a lie. God Almighty promised that land to Abraham.

tom finley
tom finley
8 months ago
Reply to  tom finley

Dr Ruckman, 2001, The Middle East -- YouTube Carpenter posted this 2 hour video, a little history is needed.

tom finley
tom finley
8 months ago
Reply to  Roth Harbard

I pray for Israel, a peculiar people that God chose. I do believe we are in the tribulation as Jesus Christ warned us of, that said, God bless you and may he put a hedge of protection around you and yours.

tom finley
tom finley
8 months ago
Reply to  Roth Harbard

Gen 12:7

Big Ruckus D
Big Ruckus D
8 months ago
Reply to  Roth Harbard

Indeed. And further to that line of thinking, Israel has maintained a blockade against Palestine for some 15 years now. A blockade, which tactic is recognized under international law (not that law really matters anymore, clearly) as an act of war. “Oh, but it’s different when we do it!’. Yeah, try again. The noticing of double standards is a large part of what has Israel in a bad spot in terms of support from many quarters presently, so they’ve done themselves no favors by openly displaying hypocrisy. That behavior just pisses people off. See our own massive problems with unequal application of the law right here at home to get a proper grasp on this.

I support neither party to this conflict; there is no good guy to be found here (also to include an antagonistic and meddlesome United States, sticking it’s nose where it’ll get broken, as it happens). Both the Israeli and Palestinian population at large have -- even if only passively -- supported the actions of the Israeli government and Hamas, respectively. Yes, accountability will be ascribed, irrespective of ones desire to avoid it.

If they want change from the typically inflammatory actions of these two groups, they, the population at large, will have to force it from the bottom up. Until they do, their consent to whatever the group representing their respective populations does is, at the very least, implied. Just as the criminal actions of the US govt are defacto consented to as long as the citizens of this country fail to force a change. But that’s an uncomfortable truth nobody wants to hear, much less contemplate. They’d rather bitch and moan and exclaim “they have to do something!”. Alright, but guess who “they” is?

At any rate, the conflict in the sandbox is over a fundamental: who controls a piece of real estate, enhanced with the white hot rage stoked by a long standing ideological rivalry. Two groups whose hatred for each other is legendary are vying for it, and at most, only one can survive. And yet that isn’t even assured, as depending on the tactics and weapons ultimately utilized in pursuit of that objective, both may be effectively wiped out.

Whatever the case, there cannot be any compromise that results in a peaceful coexistence. That much has been assured, so they will either return to an uneasy and tenuous standoff again for some period of time, as has been the custom since 1948, or both sides will finally seek to proceed with their “final solution”. That, of course, will trigger exogenous events by other interested parties, creating a full scale conflagration. So be careful of that pile of dog squeeze you are about to step in, for it may be concealing a land mine (or a nuke).

tom finley
tom finley
8 months ago
Reply to  Big Ruckus D

The palestinian and state is a lie, their ethnicity is Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese and other muslim nations, the so called Palestinian has been behind the untold terrorist attacks on Israelis for 30 plus years. Killing women and children indiscrimanately, they are nothing more than terrorist thugs.

Big Ruckus D
Big Ruckus D
8 months ago
Reply to  tom finley

Alright, so says you. And even if that were somehow verifiably true, the Palestinians believe they are Palestinian, and are entitled to their own country. Do you propose to reprogram their minds to have them believe they are just misguided Egyptians who need to go home? Or will it be far easier to rationalize a justification into place for wiping them out, as is being called for by some of the most vocal and hardline supporters of Israel? Because that is really your only option, when you get right down to it. Claiming to do it in the name of God is probably possible given public gullibility, but some of us will call you out on that, so be prepared for resistance.

Denying the existence of Palestinians does nothing to solve the problem -- and rather, inflames it further, as they are still there irrespective of your decrees otherwise. Nor does it change the fact that I don’t want the blood and treasure of my county (or what once was, anyway) spent on a conflict that cannot possibly benefit me or mine in any conceivable way.

Citing biblical verses as justification for a no-holds-barred war started on behalf of Israel is also a deflection tactic; as if to smugly say to me “who are you to argue with God?” Well, if an omnipotent God wants this problem solved, and he can clearly see the direction it is being taken by present escalation, then maybe he needs to step in with some divine intervention post haste. Because barring that, a massive portion of his creation may well cease to exist, making Christian support of Israel is nothing more than a suicide pact. In that case, I’m going to have to believe that the bible, or at least the interpretation of it’s passages in that regard, are wrong. Does God really want us to engage in a large scale war, so destructive of nature and humanity, to settle a dispute over a piece of land? I’m just not buying that.

Meanwhile, you are conveniently ignoring the fact I have clearly stated I support neither side, and trying to force my support to Israel by emotional manipulation: “Killing women and children indiscrimanately (sic), they are nothing more than terrorist thugs.” Yes, they have done that. And gang bangers in Chicago and Baltimore have been indiscriminately killing people, including women and children, for decades.

Would God postulate that we are to utilize our military force to go in and wipe out all the black people in those locales because they (some subset of them) are nothing more than terrorist thugs? After all, they are fighting over territory. I could (disingenuously) justify that action by simply stating I’m demanding an even and consistent application of your rules of engagement for an equally untenable problem. Can you see how stupid that argument is yet? But, once again, when Israel is the victim, somehow there is a completely different set of rules and justifications offered for doing something that could never be applied elsewhere due to moral and ethical hangups over killing scores of people. Ah, that old double standard rears it’s ugly head again.

Oh, but they are God’s chosen people, will be the given defense. Well, that’s quite…arrogant. So now they have been unilaterally declared superior to all the rest of humanity, for what are self serving reasons. Again, I have a real problem with the notion that God would place one subset of his creation in a preferred position, such that the rest of us can be told to piss off and that our problems and concerns are unimportant, because these special people over here are suffering some indignity. On an individual level, taking an attitude like that towards another person is likely to get you an ass kicking, because nobody like a smarmy bastard with a superiority complex who constantly manipulates the rules to his own favor. Therefore, that line of argument has no currency with me, either.

Arguing that all of this is needed to fulfill scripture and bring about the return of The Messiah is also non starter for me. By that thinking, the end times could be forestalled indefinitely if humanity simply failed to provide the prescribed circumstances that scripture states are required for the second coming to take place. Does it make any sense that the entirety of our existence is one giant if-then-else statement in the style of a computer program, and that if the execution branches unexpectedly outside the planned boundaries, that the Redeemer will never show up as a result? Do come on now.

We are responsible for making decisions. Some of those decisions can and will cause our destruction, if we choose poorly. Right now, concerted attempts are being made to goad us into undertaking ruinous actions, with religious beliefs being utilized as the cudgel to set the stage for doing things (genocide) that are decidedly at odds with what are purportedly Christian beliefs. But I guess exceptions to belief can always be made, eh? Once again, attempting to have ones cake and eat it too.

In the end, we are facing utter ruination because all manner of justification couched in the non-negotiable tenets of scripture and religious belief are being invoked to stifle debate over the worthiness of the cause, and consideration of the consequences. That’s a neat trick if you can get people to shut up and back down with it. Consider me wholly unimpressed by such manipulative tactics.

Remember too, that in the last 4 years much the same sort of psychologically manipulative tactics have been employed to justify all the law breaking and destruction of humanity that was undertaken for the response to COVID, and to gin up support for making war with Russia, using Ukraine as a proxy (to their everlasting detriment, considering the number of Ukrainians now killed in that lost cause).

This play book has been run too many times in rapid succession to remain effective on the large numbers of people that need to be influenced into going along unquestioningly. The magic incantations have lost their oomph, and many are, like me, staking out the position that we will not be lead into another boondoggle by propagandists and charlatans. True believers are free to sacrifice themselves to the cause, but I am not going along for this ride. Do not demand or expect anything of me in support of this dumpster fire. Too much of our finite time and good fortune has been flushed down rat holes already. No more.

tom finley
tom finley
8 months ago
Reply to  Big Ruckus D

Contempt prior to investigation will keep a man in ignorance, so says I. You don’t have to buy anything I am saying, I sure as hell don’t buy anything your saying.

Big Ruckus D
Big Ruckus D
8 months ago
Reply to  tom finley

And so it is in Israel too. An irreconcilable impasse, in which neither side can or will yield, barring absolute destruction. Cute too, that you will accuse me of ignorance. You don’t know me, nor the depth of my knowledge. You only know that you don’t like what I’m saying, as it challenges your beliefs head on. Thereby you respond insultingly and petulantly.

This is why we will eventually have unspeakable violence right here at home, because there will always be people insistent on imposing their ideologies (and the costs thereof) on others, and people (eventually) willing to kill in response to being imposed upon by zealots of one stripe or another. We have seen the former revealed to remarkable effect by events of just the last few years (with the open and seething contempt of the “vaxx Nazis”), and are presently awaiting the inevitable response of the latter, who are thus far patient to a fault, despite the insults heaped upon them. These stand offs cannot last forever, tempers will blow off and someone will be made to yield.

But clearly I have just wasted my time arguing these points, since this is ultimately a bottle of wills between impossibly divergent points of view on the basic ordering of human existence. There is a long history of blithely gearing up genocides/democides when either agreement or withdrawal is no longer possible. And here we are. Looks like the stage is set for another round of wonton violence to settle scores, just about everywhere one looks today. I’d much prefer to avoid that outcome, but the majority seems intent on forcing that course of action.

Aw well, trying to be a voice of reason is always a fools errand. War it shall be.

tom finley
tom finley
8 months ago
Reply to  Big Ruckus D

I will not change or alter my opinion for you or any man, in your comments back to me, were a lot of assumptions and I did not say, apparently God or his word offends you, that is your problem not mine. Compromise? You can find that in the uniparty that has destroyed the Republic.

Big Ruckus D
Big Ruckus D
8 months ago
Reply to  tom finley

You misjudge me. I’m not at all interested in compromise ala uniparty or MSM idiocy. I’m interested in authoritarian busy bodies sitting down and shutting the hell up permanently, instead of dragging me into costly and destructive quagmires on the basis of their beliefs, which they consider senior to all others. But they are unrelenting in their insistence that I pay and suffer consequences for their causes, and that they will persecute me, up to and including killing me for my refusal to sacrifice my own well being for their latest pet project.

They sought to destroy my livelihood and access to any kind of normality and happiness during the height of covid. And they did so with absolute relish at making me, and all who thought similarly, suffer under their dictates. They went so far as to wish a painful and prolonged death upon me for refusing to get their poisoned shots. I stood my ground, and didn’t comply. It came at a cost that cannot ever be recovered, and for that I still owe them an unquantifiable load of retribution.

Then they childishly attempted to smear me, accused me of being a shill for Putin when I declined to support their neocon warmongering in Ukraine, and even flatly denied the obvious underlying reasons for Russia’s decision to go into Ukraine. They are sanctimonious, impertinent fools bent on creating suffering and destruction because their ideology drives them to require absolute adherence to their causes by all. In essence, they are of the “if we can’t have it, nobody can, and we will burn it all down to insure that outcome” mentality. Maybe you don’t espouse this position. I don’t know, and don’t even need to since there are far more than enough who do to present a clear and present danger to my ongoing existence. In short, screw them.

You specifically may not be, but in general, they are now demanding that I support Israel with both money and blood. This while the US is already bankrupt and militarily weak, and while I’m too old to be called for combat, I do have extended family members who are at risk of being placed in that position should the US end up fomenting a large scale war with the greater Muslim world in defending Israel. To say nothing of the reprisals that will certainly occur here by embedded bad actors who have walked right into the CONUS with the blessing of this dysfunctional crime syndicate otherwise known as the federal government.

No, I don’t want war or violence brought upon me and mine, and I don’t want to be forced to live under an all controlling totalitarian regime. We are quite clearly headed that direction though, and if it comes to that, I would have no compunction at all about seeking the absolute destruction of those imposing all of this on me. Yes, democide is on the table. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it before you think I’ll yield to any such demands. Also be mindful of the fact there are many more like me who are tired of being shat upon by those who feel entitled to steer the course of human events on such a macro scale.

The fundamental fact here is that the authoritarians are the aggressors, and the Israel conflict is just their latest tool to try and force a largely unwanted and unpopular agenda. Meanwhile, I’m just hanging back here trying to live a modest and productive life, plying my trade and minding my own business. Yet I cannot even be afforded that simple pleasure by these damnable pot-stirrers. Apparently, those who share my outlook on this will eventually be driven to wipe out the authoritarian strain of humanity, or we will be enslaved, and more likely killed ourselves, for our unwillingness to give full support to their positions.

This is functionally no different to what Israel is now contemplating doing, and for much the same reasons, to Palestinians. I’m not even saying that such an action won’t be necessary there, as ultimately only one of two parties can remain, given their respective stated objectives. But do not expect me, as a disinterested third party with no dog in the race, to materially involve myself in it. I -- we -- have problems aplenty on the domestic front, and none are being paid so much as lip service, while Israel sucks all the air out of the room with their crisis being given top billing. We are spread way to thin to keep going around covering all these asses.

Furthermore, stop trying to justify genocide such by citing scripture and postulating that it somehow is what God would want for the benefit of his chosen people. Anyone advocating the wipe out of Palestinians at large (or any other group) to settle a conflict needs to accept full responsibility for their espoused position and come right out and just say they hate these people (whoever they happen to be) and want them all dead, because that’s all it really amounts to. But no one wants to do that, because the moral and ethical implications make it untenable for public acceptance. Instead, fancy rationalizations are created to give a plausible excuse for the violence being brought against the targeted party, and to try and avoid culpability later on, when the predictable indigestion occurs, as people realize what was actually done, and why.

I think I’ve pretty well laid out my position on all this now. My disinterest in supporting Israel isn’t out of hatred, but in consideration of my own best interests. Is that self-serving? Yes, if course it is. But it is said with the knowledge the US cannot fix what is wrong there, and I am loathe to be forced into a matter that will most assuredly cause much more suffering than if the conflict is somehow contained to the two principals involved. US military involvement is sure to get many more people killed by the eventual knock on effects of being there and further inflaming an already unstable mess.

tom finley
tom finley
8 months ago
Reply to  Big Ruckus D

We are both and many more have been designated terrorists in the country we were born in, that is not me saying that, it is the illegal regime now in charge. I did not and will not comply to any of their dictates, as I have said in my comments any attempt to detain or arrest me, will be taken as a threat to life and I will act accordingly. We all have different views on our situation and what we need to do to solve it. You are correct we cannot fix what is happening in Israel, we need to take care of business here foremost, front and center.

tom finley
tom finley
8 months ago
Reply to  Big Ruckus D

I was out of line about your hedonistic approach, should not have said that.

Big Ruckus D
Big Ruckus D
8 months ago
Reply to  tom finley

In appreciate the gesture. It appears we were talking past each other due to not having previously established known positions. It is to be desired that a large scale conflict could be avoided, but it looks to me that humanity has hit a brick wall that will mark the end of the current epoch, given the level of destruction I see on horizon.

What comes after this now failed era is unknown to me, and I can only hope some means of deposing the maniacs who have brought us to this point can be found, so they don’t lead us right back into similar circumstances again. And that is operating on the assumption any basis for civilization remains when this all plays out.

tom finley
tom finley
8 months ago
Reply to  Big Ruckus D

By the way, Israel does not need our military help, I did not call for that, your hedonistic approach is what I could hear on any MSM boobtube.

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[…] have read the article on NCRenegade linked to Vox Popoli twice now. I want to say that the information in the article can be taken in […]

Elder Son
Elder Son
8 months ago

Christian-ZionistsBut you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
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And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
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And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.
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Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.
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By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.”
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But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
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And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
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I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
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And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house— for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”
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They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did.
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For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.
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For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.
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And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.
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So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
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Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
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For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
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The Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.
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Let me tell you what the Jews are going to bring you. A fake Third Temple, with fake Priests, fake Sacrifices, and a fake Messiah/Mahdi… and you will worship this fake Messiah/Mahdi, or lose your head.

Christian Zionism — Never Again!