Secession

I don’t usually respond to comments around the web on the things written in this space. Largely, they are by communists who don’t like to be criticized, but something written by a person I have respect for (and I am giving him a lot more credit than he gave me) writes something that while it criticizes the concept of secession, it also raises larger issues in the overall discussion, I thought that I would break with that tradition. 

Aesop in the Raconteur Report posted something highly critical of the idea of secession, without really fleshing out the machinery of secession. Now, this is not an attack on Aesop. As I have said, I have respect for him, but it shows where a lot of people might be misunderstanding the situation and I am using his post as a method of walking through it. 

Aesop says, “This is 2021. Not 1861. Not 1776.” First of all, how does he know? Will future generations look back on 2021 or more likely 2025, and add them into some future post in 2150? The point he makes is that there is not a dividing line, an us vs them or solidification of sentiment as there was in those olden times. Not all secessions begin and end the same way.

History tells us that 1776 was as convoluted and politically charged within households as 2021. There was the British and the Colonists, but not all British felt themselves loyal to the crown and, conversely, many colonists did. Just as not all fedgov feel loyal to Joe Biden, or conservatives to Donald Trump.

I give George Washington as an example, who traded in his commission in the British Army to stand with the colonists at a time when I’m sure he felt that he would lose the war. That the war was unwinnable, but saw it as a means to appeal to the international community, mostly France, to intercede against Britain long enough to establish the new nation. Washington had foresight and didn’t charge off to attack the British at their strength. Aesop seems to only want to a fight a battle he is sure to win, or that losing is somehow stupid. Both options suggest a person who does not act out of principle, but only if assured of success. This suggests a willingness to live on one’s knees rather than to die on one’s feet.

Second, the idea of Texas breaking off from the republic to stand alone as one nation seems ridiculous to Aesop. This shows lack of understanding of secession. If 38 or 40 of the states (Republican legislatures) decided to secede, the question then becomes, are the 10 or 12 left really the formidable force he seems to think it is? And, at that point who is choosing secession and who is choosing the Union? I suggest it is the one that wants to follow the Constitution. Even then, a lot of people have moved to Texas from blue states, because they felt themselves no longer able to take the communist pounding and complicit government actions of those blue governors. Florida has felt the same surge, for the same reasons. Is this not a form of breaking off? Is there only one line? Only one action?

Yes, we are a purple nation, as Aesop says, in purple states. Does he envision it has ever been anything else? Again, history goes wanting in his analysis. Kentucky straddled that fence of Union and Confederate, taking neither side, Kentuckians from each side volunteering for either the Union or Confederacy. Perhaps the feud of the Hatfields and McCoys slipped the mind. Does he imagine that everyone in South Carolina felt the same? That no South Carolinian thought the actions of the government were unwise and dangerous?

Read the Whole Article Here…

      
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GenEarly
GenEarly
1 month ago

Good Analysis imo. The “legalese” of secession will Follow the Realities on the ground. Counties will secede in practice as their citizens sentiments dictate. A “cold” CW between sections of states then emerges. This is easy enough to imagine, many already have, I have no loyalty to the Communists, Crooks, or Bureaucrats in the Feral DC or my State Governments. It’s a ridiculous idea to even think of loyalty to such vermin, and a small step to step away too.

AngryVetNC
AngryVetNC
1 month ago

In Mr. Aesop’s defense I’d like to say being raised in the historic area of the first revolution on top of the woods and fields where the blood fell gives one a particular view point and insight. I grew up in Kings Mountain near the Orman’s furnace . I’ve got 2 ancestors that fought at or around the battle of kings Mountain. One of them a Captain Ware suffered his wife being assualted and beat with a whip by british loyalist militia while he was out in the woods hunting british regulars. Down the road from my house british dragoons showed up and harassed a patriot family by stealing their family bible and riding it like a saddle . There never is definitive set in stone lines where one can be considered safe and amongst only allies in these civil conflicts. I read a book about some of my wife’s people who lived in Cade’s Cove middle of nowhere mountains during the civil war. They had to deal with escape yankees and union calvary randomly popping up. They had little kids (sentry’s)on the few roads posing as playing children that would blow horns when they saw people letting the home gaurd know of the threat. I’d say folks that weren’t raised with the personal stories of the revolution or similar civil conflicts can’t get the picture here. We’re not Bosnia,the Stan, the raq,chechnya, Nam,and or any other foreign nation. American civil conflict has innovatived the proceeding world’s wars and conflicts everytime. I think Aesop is dead right about most of what he said. But please excuse us crazies who can’t take it lying down. I agree about the only thing that could happen to unify the free Americans would be a Waco/ Ruby ridge x100 somewhere by the feds. And I believe they are retarded enough to do it. Until then we’re on this slow burn with bloated satanic politicians at the helm.
Yes states can be ballsy enough to secede in my opinion. But are they ballsy enough and ultimately capable of raising armies willing to fight against the feds? Not really. Maybe Texas could field a uniformed army but I doubt Abbot has the sack necessary. Balkanization/ American exit strategy.

GenEarly
GenEarly
1 month ago
Reply to  AngryVetNC

You leap from Here and Now to There and Then without the intervening steps so it does appear to be a Great Leap. As John Adam’s said of the 1775 Revolution,
1775 was merely the Outbreak of Hostilities, The Revolution occured in the Minds of the People years before.
Where “exactly” We are is open to individual interpretation by Patriots, but there seems to be No Doubt where We Are in the Plans, Pogroms? of the sElected Globalist NWO Bolshevik democRats and their Crooked Cousin Rethuglicans.
I 100% agree that the FIB false flag is on the event horizon. Commies gotta commie and the FIB is the Stasi+KGB of “Our Demoncrazy”.

AngryVetNC
AngryVetNC
1 month ago

Mark Goodwin’s fictional prepper book written like 10 years ago laid out an American exit strategy in the books story. Folks were encouraged by a presidential candidate to ween themselves off the dollar,move from the cities, not join the military, buy gold,silver,food,ammo and pull every dime from the stock market . Basically a secession without any government being formed or brave state legislature. Btw that presidential candidate had the election stolen from him in the story. Creepily similar to 2020.

swrichmond
swrichmond
1 month ago

As you say, we will have little nullifications, then larger ones. Those nullifications will provoke responses from DC out of proportion with reality, as they feel their power slipping away. I am increasingly convinced they are absolutely terrified. And they will make increasingly bad decisions, on top of the last one, endlessly worsening the situation.

They continue to behave, and this might be the only way they CAN behave at this point, as if stifling the expression of dissent is the same thing as eliminating the existence of dissent itself. This bit of political theater they are carrying out reminds me greatly of the breakup of the Soviet Union, when the old Soviet states started breaking away and Moscow’s response was to convey on Gorbachev some grand new title but otherwise watch helplessly as it all fell apart.

I am actually more hopeful now than I have been in quite a number of years. There are not adequate words to describe the heights of absurdity to which the left has publicly gone. No one supports them anymore. It has become for me now like watching a documentary on the end of the Roman Empire. They have all the money and all the corporations and all the politicians and they are incapable of running a lemonade stand. They have completely de-legitimized themselves. No one cares what they do. I sure as hell don’t.

Having said that, the Romans did not have the ability to ask the UN for troops. This government can and will do that at some point, and that will be the death-knell (if Covid doesn’t prove to be).

Borchardt
Borchardt
1 month ago

If you could buy Aesop for what he is worth and sell him for what he thinks he is worth, you could retire on the difference.

FedUpFLman
FedUpFLman
1 month ago

France seems to slip Through the cracks a lot themselves on how much power they have! I personally thought a secession of stars might be only thing left to do at this point. I am not as educated as most here, but I am learning a lot and sometimes wishing is was still just STUPID AND BLIND TO IT ALL.. It has consumed a lot of us I know. I hate seeing this division Over such stupid stuff! I also kinda agree with “not knowing who vs who/line in sand etc ” Ita also a valid point in a way. Tech IS INSANE! So far behind what we even fathom..IMO So, we’re all on “list ” and do I care… Not enough to forget my fallen loved ones apparently. I just don’t know what they are capable of with the monopoly setup on everything especially TECH. Seems like a dman hackers war honestly! Everything is online and Tech battles. Like a few damn movies I saw! A.I. vs human. I see why this was agda 2030 though! MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE!! These kids have no clue unfortunately.

So, is convention of States BAD?

X-Beast
X-Beast
1 month ago

I think Aesop should read up a little on what Winston Churchill had to say about fighting tyranny. Here’s one of his quotes that really hits home.
“If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be even a worse fate, you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”
I think Aesop would rather live as a slave than do anything.

Dan
Dan
1 month ago

Secession was attempted once….and we saw how that turned out. The attempt resulted in the largest loss of American life of ANY WAR ever fought by America. The Fed Gov is NEVER EVER going to allow any state to secede. PERIOD! Secession means a loss of political power, a decrease in the taxable wealth available for looting and a massive loss in “face”. ANY such attempt WILL result in the us of the military to put an end to it resulting in a Civil war….as if such a war isn’t already highly probable.

a follower
a follower
1 month ago
Reply to  Dan

i believe much the same. The “Civil war” still seems unsettled, for many, after all these years there are those who can not and will not get over it! Why? Because of the many, many lies, the “political”, and the spiritual to quite an extent. i believe that slavery was on the decline back in these days, because of a Natural or Super natural calling. Mankind, inside new that this was inherently wrong and should come to an end. At the very least the ‘abusive’ side of slavery.
Well the world and “powers that be can not have that.
So does war actually ever Truly solve the issues? Does war end the sin? Or is it just part of the cycle that we can not seem to break free of?
Unfortunately, i do not see that any amount of talk will ever stop what is coming. Yet, we should have a look at why and how this continues to overtake us.

Last edited 1 month ago by a follower
a follower
a follower
1 month ago
Reply to  a follower

We are all slaves in this world as told, as warned (we are fallen) to quite an extent, yet how do, or should we treat each other?

GenEarly
GenEarly
1 month ago
Reply to  a follower

We meet on the battleground of the Physical vs the Spiritual. There are Countless Answers and Opinions as We are all individuals with command of our destinies. Yet “The Earthly Game” remains the same throughout time. This is nothing new, “To Be, or Not To Be”, decide and roll the dice, thankfully We are Immortals playing this game.

a follower
a follower
1 month ago
Reply to  GenEarly

i can appreciate those sentiments.

Truth in Tension
Truth in Tension
1 month ago
Reply to  Dan

If any states actually secede they will have moved past giving consideration, as to whether or not, the Fed Gov will allow it. By the way, who is the leviathan called the federal government? Who does the federal government answer to? Who does the federal government represent and who does it protect? Intuitively, we know the answers to the questions and the answers are not beneficial to people who are Christians, who value freedom, personal property rights, traditional families, small government and who just want to be left alone.
Keep in mind, the Great Reset is about the destruction of all independent nations, personal freedom, religious freedom and personal property rights. With this in mind, any state that does not want to be a fiefdom of the hyper centralized one world communist / fascist UN government may be forced to consider secession, as well as, other actions in order to protect the freedom, and personal property rights of the people that live in the state(s).
Do you mean the same military that could not defeat North Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iran or Syria? The war of Northern Aggression was caused by Lincoln and his Whig / Mercantilist party. The Northern States had almost all of the industrial and manufacturing capability. Today, most of the industrial and manufacturing capability remaining is now in the southern States or has been moved to other low cost communist / fascist countries.
No one wants do see the breakup of the united States, however, in the fourth turning this may be a real possibility.
Without personal freedom and property rights there cannot be free markets or a sound currency. We are now living in interesting times that most people cannot even begin to understand, and are not spiritually prepared for.
Who is John Galt?

DAN III
DAN III
1 month ago
Reply to  Dan

Dan….never say never.

Paraclete
Paraclete
1 month ago

First off let me say, many folks who post here are much wiser than I. It appears to me that who ever is “loyal” to Our Constitution is the party which is of legal representation of this Republic. All other so-called authority is the renegade or break-away entity. So whether one or thirty states aligns with Our Constitution and Bill of Rights, against that which IS perverting all which we hold dear, delineates which party has pulled away. Secondly, questions are raised concerning, “Would it be a revolution or a civil war ?” The answer lays with those states which seek to be loyal to Our Constitution. Do they defend that which is established by the Founders or do they desire to start anew ? The answer seems obvious to me. Those who defend that which is right in the eyes of Our Constitution, as it is Written, is at war with entities foreign and domestic. Which sounds to me, to be a civil war of Restoration. Hence forth, as Bracken has stated, “Our North Star IS Our Bill of Rights.” Our Strength is of Our Lord, Jesus Christ. May His Holy Spirit provide us the courage to do that which is righteous.

Malachi
Malachi
1 month ago

This is why I moved my family to the Ozarks of Missouri. I’ve already chosen a side, too. My ethnicity, the Constitution, Biblical morality. I’d gage the Ozarks as being 95% just that. Springfield would account for the 5% not in line with those parameters, but even there I suspect the majority share those convictions The Missouri House and Senate each have bills pending that demand state officials ignore Federal gun laws. Good stuff..

Lori G
1 month ago

Both sides are missing the elephant in the room, in my opinion. We are a nation at war with God, and therefore under judgment. Without repentance God Himself is taking us down (as a nation, not as individuals, may we as individuals be like Daniel!). Plan accordingly.

Rabbi Will McCubbins
Rabbi Will McCubbins
1 month ago
Reply to  Lori G

I agree.

A Patriot
A Patriot
1 month ago

Article V of The Constitution “ on the Application of Legislatures of 2/3(34) the several states, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments,which,in either case( or with Congress) shall be valid for all intents and purposes, as part of this constitution, when ratified by 3/4 (38) of the several states or by conventions in 3/4 thereof, as the one or the other ( Congress) mode of ratification may be proposed by Congress”..
34 state legislatures could call a Constitutional Convention, propose, amend or rewrite the constitution, add four more to have three fourths( 38) and we have a new republic.
ideas? Balanced budget, term limits, one six year president term, voter protection, no gun control, amendment for complete border security.
just keep 25, eliminations? Congressional pay increases? #26

DRenegade
Admin
1 month ago
Reply to  A Patriot

Do some research on the purpose of the Constitutional Convention. Then read Matt Bracken’s Enemies Foreign and Domestic Trilogy.

A Patriot
A Patriot
1 month ago
Reply to  DRenegade

The purpose of a convention is to propose amendments. If 38 states ratify them, they become part of the Constitution. It’s a long shot for sure but a built in remedy.My research on the Constitution has been on going for decades as preparation for teaching United States Government. There has been a movement to gain the needed number of state legislatures for a convention for a number of years. A petition to sign as well.
I’ve read Matt’s fiction which are enjoyable but have no real bearing on this subject any more than Kurt Schlicters novels.

DRenegade
Admin
1 month ago
Reply to  A Patriot

I disagree.

A Patriot
A Patriot
1 month ago
Reply to  DRenegade

“If 38 or 40 of the states (Republican legislatures) decided to secede, the question then becomes, are the 10 or 12 left really the formidable force he seems to think it is? And, at that point who is choosing secession and who is choosing the Union? I suggest it is the one that wants to follow the Constitution.”
Would this be 38-40 independent nation states? Would regions form new countries? Or for the preservation of the republic would they choose to hold a constitutional convention? The 2021 equivalent of the Continental Congress. It’s all academic.
Regardless of the theoretical argument over secession our social contract is broken. We are no longer governed by our consent. The regime surrounds itself with barbed wire because of fear while they cement their hold on power with executive orders and usurpations to override state election laws, codify the means of future fraudulent national elections and open our southern border to the cartels, criminals, maybe jihadists? Not to mention inviting more of China’s asymmetrical warfare against us.
So does our contract for protection return to our states or counties, or just every individual for themselves? I’m appalled we have come to this.

Rick Worley
Rick Worley
1 month ago

There is no provision in the U.S. Constitution which prohibits a state from leaving the Union(secession).This was made clear by a proposal which was made at the 1787 Constitutional to grant the new federal government the specific power to suppress a seceding state. James Madison,acknowledged as the key founding father of the Constitution,rejected this proposal stating,”A Union of states containing such an ingredient seemed to provide for it’s own destruction”
The assurance of state sovereignty is embodied in the Tenth Amendment of the Constitution,which reserves to the states all rights which have not been specifically delegated to the federal government.As the federal government was never delegated the right to force the states into violent submission, secession is properly a legal right which can be exercised at any time.
Thomas Jefferson made clear his distrust of an all-powerful federal government.And his fear that the will of the people could easily be hijacked.As stated in the Federalist Papers,”Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy”.

A Patriot
A Patriot
1 month ago
Reply to  Rick Worley

Here, here! (And Federalist #46.)
The union is a voluntary association. The states created it. Patrick Henry argued with Madison at the Virginia Ratification Convention in 1788 about the evils of a consolidated government. 233 years later here we are!

Glacialhills
Glacialhills
1 month ago

Over and over, I have heard we need a constitutional convention and then all these wonderful amendments will issue forth, like term limits, balanced budgets and the like. I have watched with dismay while the country and traditional values that I hold dear have been whittled away and watered down in just the last 40 years.

With what we know of how the state governments have thusly acted, why would you open the constitution to these woke legislatures. I see them rewriting it with a more equal first amendment taking out Neanderthal religions, “common sense” second amendment,limited to hunting, big tech rules and regs and all the crap that is the reason we are at this place in history right now. Beware what you wish for, given the opportunity, they would alter our precious constitution into an unrecognizable Frankenstein’s monster to enslave us and empower them, removing all the safeguards that limited them in the original.

DRenegade
Admin
1 month ago
Reply to  Glacialhills

Which is why sapient people do not want a convention. But people want to believe in fairy tales.

A Patriot
A Patriot
1 month ago
Reply to  Glacialhills

That is a worry. Good point. It’s not going to happen but I’ve always thought how insightful Madison was to include the Article V mechanism by which the document could be altered if necessary. I believe it ties back to the Jefferson clause “ if the government becomes ill to the will of the people it is their right to alter or abolish and institute new government “
my idealism and love for the genius of our founders leads me to hope that if such a convention of states were convened to institute new government they would not alter the Bill of Rights, but only add amendments to strengthen it.
I suppose at this point we must rely on our states to nullify federal decrees which infringe on those rights and protections as Texas may do in continuing to build the wall on their border.

Gryphon
Gryphon
1 month ago

Useless Talkings. As I have pointed out before, the ‘states’ are subdivisions of a “Corporation”, that is now so far in “Debt” to the (((internatioal banksters))) that No ‘state’ can effectively Secede without the “Debt” being the issue used by the real (((enemy))) to Go to War with that State, just as they did the last Time.
In my opinion, the only way forward is for Individuals, and localities, to ‘Nullify’ the feral government’s Edicts. Too Many points of Resistance for Force to be effectively used. Then, at some point, Individual, Forcible Action will have to take place. The Goal needs to be Degrading all aspects of (((their))) beast system so that it no longer can function effectively.
And if you haven’t gotten Rid of the enemies’ Spy Phone, You are part of the Problem.

Truth in Tension
Truth in Tension
1 month ago
Reply to  Gryphon

The question is why have the States refused to apply the 10 amendment to unconstitutional laws, executive orders, regulations and election fraud? Is it because the State legislators have been brought off with fiat money?
To ask the question is to know the answer.
Who is John Galt?